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> What actually ended apartheid was international pressure There wasn't any international pressure. There was a withdrawal of the continual and embarrassing su

> What actually ended apartheid was international pressure There wasn't any international pressure. There was a withdrawal of the continual and embarrassing support from Britain and the US, the only people other than Israel who hadn't been overly troubled by Apartheid. First from Britain, because as bad as she was, Thatcher was nauseated by Apartheid, then from the US who would have had to actively intervene (as they are right now in a similar context) in order to preserve Apartheid. This was only 25 years after the US had ended its own legal Apartheid. The US political class was largely indifferent to Apartheid (aside from periodic expressions of mild disapproval of both sides and condemnation of Communist-backed terrorism), so when they saw how the wind was blowing within SA ("fear of a civil war"), and that individual domestic politicians could be damaged or gain politically through their actions towards SA, the US supported the "coup" (as always) so they could keep doing business without interruption. So I'd instead say popular pressure among citizens of the US and Britain against their own politicians, and the resulting withdrawal of Anglo-American support. Everything else but "international pressure" I agree with totally.

DAGdug 2y ago
“ as they are right now in a similar context” You can be more direct about Israel’s treatment of Palestinians! All it takes for evil to succeed ….
- anovick 2y ago
  There's no similar context because the Apartheid system that existed in South Africa has no resemblance to today's Israel. In particular: - There's no racial segregation laws; an Arab-Israeli can travel anywhere a Jewish-Israeli can. In fact, Arabic is an officially recognized language by the state of Israel, and throughout the country, every public service has signs in Arabic alongside Hebrew. - Jews are not a minority in Israel, they comprise 78% of the population.
  - kombine 2y ago
    [flagged]
  - oa335 2y ago
    > Arab-Israeli can travel anywhere … That is simply not true. E.g. The city of Hebron is segregated by religion - see https://youtu.be/Z42HhaywhGQ?si=bTBhEFi5lgBJQX9v https://youtu.be/Z42HhaywhGQ?si=bTBhEFi5lgBJQX9v
    - klipt 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - oa335 2y ago
        How is it "Palestinian apartheid" when Israeli soldiers are the ones enforcing it?
        klipt 2y ago
        [flagged]
        oa335 2y ago
        > If the alternative offered by the Palestinian Authority is ethnically cleansing all the Jews out of Hebron, it seems reasonable for the soldiers to be there to keep the peace? So demanding that settlers who illegally occupied land is “ethnic cleansing”? And you seem to be ceding my point and agreeing that it is apartheid, but justified. > The Israeli government is obviously not perfect, but Arab citizens of Israel are generally treated way better than Jewish citizens of Muslim countries. Whataboutism and irrelevant. One comment ago you were saying it’s “”Palestinian apartheid”, now you are saying that it may be apartheid but it’s justified and so what, other countries are worse. I’m sorry but this I’m not going to engage any further with this type of discourse.
        rougka 2y ago
        in your opinion these are settlers illegally occupying land, in their opinion they came back after they were ethnically cleansed from Hebron in the 1929 and 1936 massacres sometimes life is surprisingly complicated
  - Qem 2y ago
    > There's no similar context because the Apartheid system that existed in South Africa has no resemblance to today's Israel. According to Human Rights Watch[1], Amnesty International[2], and many other human rights organizations, the regime in Israel today is in fact recognized as a system of apartheid. Mandela himself shown a lot of solidarity to the palestinian cause[3]. [1] https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/isra... [2] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2022/02/qa-israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-cruel-system-of-domination-and-crime-against-humanity/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2022/02/qa-israel... [3] https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/nelson-mandela-30-years-palestine https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/nelson-mandela-30-years-p...
    - robertoandred 2y ago
      So, believe biased organizations or the dictionary. I'll go with the dictionary.

DAGdug 2y ago

“ as they are right now in a similar context” You can be more direct about Israel’s treatment of Palestinians! All it takes for evil to succeed ….

anovick 2y ago
There's no similar context because the Apartheid system that existed in South Africa has no resemblance to today's Israel. In particular: - There's no racial segregation laws; an Arab-Israeli can travel anywhere a Jewish-Israeli can. In fact, Arabic is an officially recognized language by the state of Israel, and throughout the country, every public service has signs in Arabic alongside Hebrew. - Jews are not a minority in Israel, they comprise 78% of the population.
- kombine 2y ago
  [flagged]
- oa335 2y ago
  > Arab-Israeli can travel anywhere … That is simply not true. E.g. The city of Hebron is segregated by religion - see https://youtu.be/Z42HhaywhGQ?si=bTBhEFi5lgBJQX9v https://youtu.be/Z42HhaywhGQ?si=bTBhEFi5lgBJQX9v
  - klipt 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - oa335 2y ago
      How is it "Palestinian apartheid" when Israeli soldiers are the ones enforcing it?
      - klipt 2y ago
        [flagged]
        oa335 2y ago
        > If the alternative offered by the Palestinian Authority is ethnically cleansing all the Jews out of Hebron, it seems reasonable for the soldiers to be there to keep the peace? So demanding that settlers who illegally occupied land is “ethnic cleansing”? And you seem to be ceding my point and agreeing that it is apartheid, but justified. > The Israeli government is obviously not perfect, but Arab citizens of Israel are generally treated way better than Jewish citizens of Muslim countries. Whataboutism and irrelevant. One comment ago you were saying it’s “”Palestinian apartheid”, now you are saying that it may be apartheid but it’s justified and so what, other countries are worse. I’m sorry but this I’m not going to engage any further with this type of discourse.
        rougka 2y ago
        in your opinion these are settlers illegally occupying land, in their opinion they came back after they were ethnically cleansed from Hebron in the 1929 and 1936 massacres sometimes life is surprisingly complicated
- Qem 2y ago
  > There's no similar context because the Apartheid system that existed in South Africa has no resemblance to today's Israel. According to Human Rights Watch[1], Amnesty International[2], and many other human rights organizations, the regime in Israel today is in fact recognized as a system of apartheid. Mandela himself shown a lot of solidarity to the palestinian cause[3]. [1] https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/israeli-authorities-and-crimes-apartheid-and-persecution https://www.hrw.org/report/2021/04/27/threshold-crossed/isra... [2] https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2022/02/qa-israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-cruel-system-of-domination-and-crime-against-humanity/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2022/02/qa-israel... [3] https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/nelson-mandela-30-years-palestine https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/nelson-mandela-30-years-p...
  - robertoandred 2y ago
    So, believe biased organizations or the dictionary. I'll go with the dictionary.