4 ms·

As I said, I don't want this to become a flame war, and to that end would have preferred not to name the apartheid state in question. But since you insist, nob

As I said, I don't want this to become a flame war, and to that end would have preferred not to name the apartheid state in question. But since you insist, nobody is just 'making it so by saying it' - indeed, saying it's not happening, in spite of the abundance of evidence, does not mean it's not! I've Norwegian friends who have seen it first hand and we're aghast, but of course that's just a personal anecdote that just happens to agree with the ICJ, Human Rights Watch, and even Israel's own B’Tselem[0]. And no - I absolutely will not try to see "both sides" of apartheid. That's a really heinous thing to say. [0] https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/19/world-court-finds-israel-responsible-apartheid https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/19/world-court-finds-israel...

submeta 2y ago
The moment you mention Israeli crimes on this platform, you get downvoted until your post / comment is dead. Sad.
gspencley 2y ago
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- tdeck 2y ago
  You could spend 5 minutes and find things like this that meet your definition but you won't, because you do not want to know about or acknowledge them: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaization_of_the_Galilee https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaization_of_the_Galilee
- GordonS 2y ago
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  - daseiner1 2y ago
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  - underdeserver 2y ago
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- oa335 2y ago
  > Because my personal operating definition is where you have one single country that has a different set of laws for different groups of people living in that country based on their ethnicity or skin colour. “ Walk around Hebron, look at the streets. Streets where Arabs are no longer allowed to go on, only Jews.” - says Amiram Levin, former head of the Israeli army’s Northern Command. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-13/ty-article/ex-israeli-general-says-army-partaking-in-west-bank-war-crimes-invokes-nazi-germany/00000189-ee00-d9cf-a7eb-ff2b12bf0000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-13/ty-article/ex.... That’s within the internationally recognized boundaries of Israel. A separate issue is that Israel enjoys full control over 60% of the West Bank (Area C), which is ever expanding, and various degrees of defects control over the rest of it. Within the West Bank Israeli settlers have more freedom of movement and less restrictions on their day to day lives. So any characterization of the West Bank as an independent country or polity is completely missing the point.
  - gspencley 2y ago
    Hebron is not part of Israel & is not governed by Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebron_Governorate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebron_Governorate Also, and I don't want to take a position here, my advocacy is for learning as much about the history and current state of affairs as possible in order to form an informed position, because not only is there fog of war going on right now, but there is a decades long conflict with lots of narratives and propaganda. I say that to offer a counter narrative in pursuit of objectivity: if you ask an Israeli, there are many areas in the West Bank that are deemed "no go zones" for for Jews, but there are none that apply to non-Jews. And as for the security and the "check points", those are applied equally to everyone who is there, regardless of citizenship or ethnicity or any other considerations. So even if it's a shitty situation, it's not targeted at any specific ethnic group. So given that a) Israel does not govern Hebron and b) the security check points are not specific to any ethnic group, how is Hebron a data point that supports the "apartheid" charge?

submeta 2y ago

The moment you mention Israeli crimes on this platform, you get downvoted until your post / comment is dead. Sad.

gspencley 2y ago

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tdeck 2y ago
You could spend 5 minutes and find things like this that meet your definition but you won't, because you do not want to know about or acknowledge them: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaization_of_the_Galilee https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaization_of_the_Galilee
GordonS 2y ago
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- daseiner1 2y ago
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- underdeserver 2y ago
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oa335 2y ago
> Because my personal operating definition is where you have one single country that has a different set of laws for different groups of people living in that country based on their ethnicity or skin colour. “ Walk around Hebron, look at the streets. Streets where Arabs are no longer allowed to go on, only Jews.” - says Amiram Levin, former head of the Israeli army’s Northern Command. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-13/ty-article/ex-israeli-general-says-army-partaking-in-west-bank-war-crimes-invokes-nazi-germany/00000189-ee00-d9cf-a7eb-ff2b12bf0000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-08-13/ty-article/ex.... That’s within the internationally recognized boundaries of Israel. A separate issue is that Israel enjoys full control over 60% of the West Bank (Area C), which is ever expanding, and various degrees of defects control over the rest of it. Within the West Bank Israeli settlers have more freedom of movement and less restrictions on their day to day lives. So any characterization of the West Bank as an independent country or polity is completely missing the point.
- gspencley 2y ago
  Hebron is not part of Israel & is not governed by Israel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebron_Governorate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebron_Governorate Also, and I don't want to take a position here, my advocacy is for learning as much about the history and current state of affairs as possible in order to form an informed position, because not only is there fog of war going on right now, but there is a decades long conflict with lots of narratives and propaganda. I say that to offer a counter narrative in pursuit of objectivity: if you ask an Israeli, there are many areas in the West Bank that are deemed "no go zones" for for Jews, but there are none that apply to non-Jews. And as for the security and the "check points", those are applied equally to everyone who is there, regardless of citizenship or ethnicity or any other considerations. So even if it's a shitty situation, it's not targeted at any specific ethnic group. So given that a) Israel does not govern Hebron and b) the security check points are not specific to any ethnic group, how is Hebron a data point that supports the "apartheid" charge?