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For the purpose of this matter, the Conseil d'État is a court, not an administrative body, it is the highest level and last resort of jurisdiction for administr

by rtsil 2y ago

For the purpose of this matter, the Conseil d'État is a court, not an administrative body, it is the highest level and last resort of jurisdiction for administrative law, i.e. the law pertaining to relations between citizens and the State or the local governments. It intervenes as the highest appelate court of administrative tribunals. Its members are judges and their decisions are judgement. But the Conseil d'État has also many other attributions that are non-jurisdictional. > They cannot decide to fine someone or put someone in jail. That's because only criminal court can do that. A divorce court cannot fine someone or put someone in jail. That doesn't make it any less of a court. A civil court doesn't fine, it only grants damages. That doesn't make it any less of a court.

kergonath 2y ago
> Its members are judges and their decisions are judgement. They are civil servants, not magistrates. They don’t have the same independence and are nothing like American judges. > That's because only criminal court can do that. That was specifically addressing the contempt of court issue. The Council of State cannot do that. It can make the public institution do something, but it cannot punish the individual. Once the action was deemed illegal, the individual faces disciplinary action from their institution, but the Council does not decide this. > That doesn't make it any less of a court. A civil court doesn't fine, it only grants damages. That doesn't make it any less of a court. What makes it not a court in the American sense is that it does not have any magistrate. Commission would be a better word.
- rtsil 2y ago
  You are trying to relate two different legal systems that are don't necessarily have equivalence. The members, although not magistrates, are independent and factually irremovable. When they are in "court" formation as is the case here, they are judges by law, and it is a court. That's where you appeal the decisions of lower judges. Their decisions ("arrêt") are case laws and precedents that affect the entire justice system (in the relations between a citizen and the State). > That was specifically addressing the contempt of court issue. There is no such thing as contempt in the US sense, in French courts. The closest would be outrages, which does not apply to the issue in question (delay tactics). Many US legal concepts, even the most basic ones, are simply not transposable to the French system.

by rtsil 2y ago

kergonath 2y ago

> Its members are judges and their decisions are judgement. They are civil servants, not magistrates. They don’t have the same independence and are nothing like American judges. > That's because only criminal court can do that. That was specifically addressing the contempt of court issue. The Council of State cannot do that. It can make the public institution do something, but it cannot punish the individual. Once the action was deemed illegal, the individual faces disciplinary action from their institution, but the Council does not decide this. > That doesn't make it any less of a court. A civil court doesn't fine, it only grants damages. That doesn't make it any less of a court. What makes it not a court in the American sense is that it does not have any magistrate. Commission would be a better word.

rtsil 2y ago
You are trying to relate two different legal systems that are don't necessarily have equivalence. The members, although not magistrates, are independent and factually irremovable. When they are in "court" formation as is the case here, they are judges by law, and it is a court. That's where you appeal the decisions of lower judges. Their decisions ("arrêt") are case laws and precedents that affect the entire justice system (in the relations between a citizen and the State). > That was specifically addressing the contempt of court issue. There is no such thing as contempt in the US sense, in French courts. The closest would be outrages, which does not apply to the issue in question (delay tactics). Many US legal concepts, even the most basic ones, are simply not transposable to the French system.