4 ms·

This is not an allowed opinion in Western thought, regardless of its obviousness.

matheusmoreira 2y ago
Psychiatry is the gift that keeps on giving. The strangest part of some of these mental diseases is how they're defined in terms of other people. You're ill because you fail to adapt to society. They diagnose a person with attention defict because he can't tolerate the government's mass education system. Can't sit still and that disrupts class and gets the guy sent to the principal who calls their parents and refers them to a doctor who prescribes medications to make it stop. Before being medicated, that exact same person used to go home and write computer code nonstop. Ten hours straight, he is a machine. There are organic causes for this, neurodevelopmental causes. There are treatments. But the truth is what everyone truly wants is to make the guy fit into society's mold. It's easier for them that way.
- Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
  The Nash equilibrium of "treating 'everyone' 'fairly'" so we ignore the ones that we will depend on to continue to have the "privilege" to do continue to do so is an existential irony that will be referred to the "Filter of Nerfed Excellence" by the next sentient sap.
- safety1st 2y ago
  The therapist, psychologist or psychiatrist cannot make society conform to the patient. They may, however, be able to convince the patient that conforming to society is not so bad. In my experience therapists are genuinely attempting to alleviate the suffering of their patients, and reducing the conflict between the patient's expectations and society's may very well be a route to that. They are not there to teach you how to live a successful life, or find your purpose, or be your own amazing snowflake self, or code more. They have been trained to diagnose specific disorders and treat those disorders with a particular set of tools, which mainly boil down to drugs and a couple of talk therapies. If you experience remission of your symptoms they were successful at their job. Considering how time and expertise intensive the existing non-drug forms of therapy are, there is no realistic version of this discipline where they can personalize the therapy in the manner you seem to be suggesting. In many cases the only realistic option is to drug the patient because they have a high case load, this will reliably make the patient suffer 20% less and that may be enough to prevent suicide.
  - matheusmoreira 2y ago
    "Alleviate the suffering of their patients". Yeah, I know. I'm still not a fan of telling patients that their world view is all wrong, that their brains don't think right and that they need to be fixed. That invalidates their lives and their experiences. These aren't Alzheimer's patients whose brains are slowly degenerating. Many of these neurodivergents are very capable people when the conditions are right. Society's conditions just aren't right for them. You simply cannot tell a hyperactive person to sit down and listen to lectures on subjects he couldn't care less about for 5 hours. It's done because things just are that way. Because the government has decreed that children shall be sent to the mass education system we call schools. How do you educate a whole nation? One to many broadcast. One teacher broadcasting knowledge to an infinite number of students. Giving people standardized tests. It's a machine designed to produce educated human beings. Keeps the kids safe and occupied while the adults are working their jobs too, isn't it convenient? It's a system. Well these patients just aren't compatible with the machine. They get chewed up by it all the same. Then they get treated for ADHD and depression and anxiety. Maybe, just maybe, it's the ones who need these patients fixed who are in need of some serious fixing of their own. Once I get that out of the way and I make sure they understand this, then I may offer them treatments and medicine. Not before. You're right, there isn't much freedom to personalize the care we give these people. Truth is health care is yet another machine. A machine that wants to help as many people as humanly possible with the limited resources at its disposal as efficiently as possible. That means standardization. It also means doctors don't have time for this because of "high case load". There must be about a dozen billion humans on this earth by now, you cannot hope to help them all even if you were superman himself. There's always something that they like. That's always been my experience with these patients. There's always a signal. Always something that just engages their brain like nothing else ever does. One of my patients is on the spectrum and has ADHD. She likes music and plays multiple instruments. Last week her mother was telling me how impressed she was because she just kinda taught herself to play piano out of nowhere. She's nine. Could we find the right conditions for these people to develop if we used 100% of our will power? I have no doubt in my mind. Whole books could be written about why it is not done.
    - safety1st 2y ago

Psychiatry is the gift that keeps on giving. The strangest part of some of these mental diseases is how they're defined in terms of other people. You're ill because you fail to adapt to society. They diagnose a person with attention defict because he can't tolerate the government's mass education system. Can't sit still and that disrupts class and gets the guy sent to the principal who calls their parents and refers them to a doctor who prescribes medications to make it stop. Before being medicated, that exact same person used to go home and write computer code nonstop. Ten hours straight, he is a machine. There are organic causes for this, neurodevelopmental causes. There are treatments. But the truth is what everyone truly wants is to make the guy fit into society's mold. It's easier for them that way.

Jerrrrrrry 2y ago
The Nash equilibrium of "treating 'everyone' 'fairly'" so we ignore the ones that we will depend on to continue to have the "privilege" to do continue to do so is an existential irony that will be referred to the "Filter of Nerfed Excellence" by the next sentient sap.
safety1st 2y ago
The therapist, psychologist or psychiatrist cannot make society conform to the patient. They may, however, be able to convince the patient that conforming to society is not so bad. In my experience therapists are genuinely attempting to alleviate the suffering of their patients, and reducing the conflict between the patient's expectations and society's may very well be a route to that. They are not there to teach you how to live a successful life, or find your purpose, or be your own amazing snowflake self, or code more. They have been trained to diagnose specific disorders and treat those disorders with a particular set of tools, which mainly boil down to drugs and a couple of talk therapies. If you experience remission of your symptoms they were successful at their job. Considering how time and expertise intensive the existing non-drug forms of therapy are, there is no realistic version of this discipline where they can personalize the therapy in the manner you seem to be suggesting. In many cases the only realistic option is to drug the patient because they have a high case load, this will reliably make the patient suffer 20% less and that may be enough to prevent suicide.
- matheusmoreira 2y ago
  "Alleviate the suffering of their patients". Yeah, I know. I'm still not a fan of telling patients that their world view is all wrong, that their brains don't think right and that they need to be fixed. That invalidates their lives and their experiences. These aren't Alzheimer's patients whose brains are slowly degenerating. Many of these neurodivergents are very capable people when the conditions are right. Society's conditions just aren't right for them. You simply cannot tell a hyperactive person to sit down and listen to lectures on subjects he couldn't care less about for 5 hours. It's done because things just are that way. Because the government has decreed that children shall be sent to the mass education system we call schools. How do you educate a whole nation? One to many broadcast. One teacher broadcasting knowledge to an infinite number of students. Giving people standardized tests. It's a machine designed to produce educated human beings. Keeps the kids safe and occupied while the adults are working their jobs too, isn't it convenient? It's a system. Well these patients just aren't compatible with the machine. They get chewed up by it all the same. Then they get treated for ADHD and depression and anxiety. Maybe, just maybe, it's the ones who need these patients fixed who are in need of some serious fixing of their own. Once I get that out of the way and I make sure they understand this, then I may offer them treatments and medicine. Not before. You're right, there isn't much freedom to personalize the care we give these people. Truth is health care is yet another machine. A machine that wants to help as many people as humanly possible with the limited resources at its disposal as efficiently as possible. That means standardization. It also means doctors don't have time for this because of "high case load". There must be about a dozen billion humans on this earth by now, you cannot hope to help them all even if you were superman himself. There's always something that they like. That's always been my experience with these patients. There's always a signal. Always something that just engages their brain like nothing else ever does. One of my patients is on the spectrum and has ADHD. She likes music and plays multiple instruments. Last week her mother was telling me how impressed she was because she just kinda taught herself to play piano out of nowhere. She's nine. Could we find the right conditions for these people to develop if we used 100% of our will power? I have no doubt in my mind. Whole books could be written about why it is not done.
  - safety1st 2y ago