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> No actions to take? The actions to take would appear to depend upon whether one wishes to have fewer adults with lifetime ADHD symptoms, or more*. The child

> No actions to take? The actions to take would appear to depend upon whether one wishes to have fewer adults with lifetime ADHD symptoms, or more*. The childhood adversities to affect either way are from [RutterQuinton77] and listed in TFA's Table S1, abbreviated here: *Low educational level parent with neither school nor training *Overcrowding more than 1.0 person/room or housing<=50m2 Parental disorder moderate to severe DSM-III-R Parental history insitutionalised/deliquent/changes of parental figure Marital discord low partnership in 2 of {harmony,communication,warmth} *Early parenthood a parent <=18 (birth) or relationship <6 months (conc) *One-parent family (at birth) *Unwanted pregnancy an abortion was seriously considered *Poor social network lack of friends & help in child care Severe chronic probs affecting a parent for more than 1 year Poorly coping parent with stressful events of past year The ones marked with * are those factors I believe relatively easier to address via social policy. EDIT: TFA uses different measures, discussed in the section "Definition of Rutter’s indicators of adversity (RIA)": low social class both parents marital discord parents not at same address large family size 4+ children paternal criminality maternal disorder ICD-8: 290–315 or ICD-10: F00-F99 foster placement * for instance, [Huxley32] mentions the practice of inducing fetal alcohol syndrome in order to ensure a steady supply of menial labour

circlefavshape 2y ago
More than 1 person per room??? Surely everyone having their own room is a very recent development?
- jprete 2y ago
  I think that's the whole house, not just bedrooms.
  - lupire 2y ago
    That makes even less sense.
  - hiatus 2y ago
    That would imply ADHD was profoundly more widespread in the generations of our grandparents and before, since 10 or more people sharing an apartment or living space was incredibly common.
    - red-iron-pine 2y ago
      entirely possible that it was, but it was less of an issue when you have to haul water 3km a day and then work in the fields. kinda like autism numbers are going up, but that might simply be because of increased diagnosis. or how "gay" isn't a new thing that's just trending -- the romans and greeks (and ottomans, and the tang dynasty, etc.) were also pretty damn gay too. all super common stuff, just not logged as much
      - hiatus 2y ago
        Idk, my grandma and my family from her generation had no problem taking a plane ride without entertainment, and didn't compensate with conversation or the seat back screen.
- lupire 2y ago
  It's a recent development among poor lower class stressed people, not among calm, comfortable successful people
potato3732842 2y ago
Tread carefully. Your comment has the aroma of exactly the sort of first order thinking that over the past 50yr resulted in welfare programs exacerbating that exact list of problems (among others) that you're saying we can solve with more welfare. I don't know what the solution is but using government to replace or supplement the kind of support that people traditionally got from their family, friends and network has only reduced the strength of those support streams over the decades. To call out one well studied example, you can't just do first order stuff like extend bennies to single moms because then people won't get married in the first place and it's easier to split up if you're not married then you've got a legit single mom on your hands with all the poorer outcomes that entails. You can play whack a mole refining the rules forever but that has its own problems.
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  > you can't just do first order stuff like extend bennies to single moms because then people won't get married and it's easier to split up if you're not married, then you've got a legit single mom on your hands with all the poorer outcomes that entails. Refusing to provide support to an person who wants to leave a relationship leads to several other factors, some on this very list. Indeed, staying in a dysfunctional, unwanted, potentially abusive relationship, just because finances force you to, is worse than the alternative.
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    The results of 50yr of various flavors of this policy kind of speak for themselves (which is why I specifically chose to mention it as my example). It's better for society if people get married, (or perform some other socially agreed upon ritual that both requires investment and signals future investment) BEFORE they start cranking out the crotchfruit. Extending more aid to people who skip this step than those who go through it leads to predictable outcomes. I get that it's really easy to play this off as some sort of pro-woman thing and try and send the discussion careening off into left field by bringing up domestic violence but we both know that's a red herring. Edit: It was a mistake to reply to this comment at all. This is all a side discussion (ironic considering the subject of TFA). My point wasn't that you can't have government do things. The point was that you can't just pick a metric and turn government loose trying to address it. The goal of historical welfare was to subsidize basic necessities with certain groups getting priority that was generally accomplished (the programs exist, they doll out bennies pursuant to the rules) but it didn't yield the expected improvement on other fronts as intended and in the process we minted a class of people who are all but trapped in a multi-generational cycle of dependance upon the welfare system.

circlefavshape 2y ago

More than 1 person per room??? Surely everyone having their own room is a very recent development?

jprete 2y ago
I think that's the whole house, not just bedrooms.
- lupire 2y ago
  That makes even less sense.
- hiatus 2y ago
  That would imply ADHD was profoundly more widespread in the generations of our grandparents and before, since 10 or more people sharing an apartment or living space was incredibly common.
  - red-iron-pine 2y ago
    entirely possible that it was, but it was less of an issue when you have to haul water 3km a day and then work in the fields. kinda like autism numbers are going up, but that might simply be because of increased diagnosis. or how "gay" isn't a new thing that's just trending -- the romans and greeks (and ottomans, and the tang dynasty, etc.) were also pretty damn gay too. all super common stuff, just not logged as much
    - hiatus 2y ago
      Idk, my grandma and my family from her generation had no problem taking a plane ride without entertainment, and didn't compensate with conversation or the seat back screen.
lupire 2y ago
It's a recent development among poor lower class stressed people, not among calm, comfortable successful people

potato3732842 2y ago

Tread carefully. Your comment has the aroma of exactly the sort of first order thinking that over the past 50yr resulted in welfare programs exacerbating that exact list of problems (among others) that you're saying we can solve with more welfare. I don't know what the solution is but using government to replace or supplement the kind of support that people traditionally got from their family, friends and network has only reduced the strength of those support streams over the decades. To call out one well studied example, you can't just do first order stuff like extend bennies to single moms because then people won't get married in the first place and it's easier to split up if you're not married then you've got a legit single mom on your hands with all the poorer outcomes that entails. You can play whack a mole refining the rules forever but that has its own problems.

ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
> you can't just do first order stuff like extend bennies to single moms because then people won't get married and it's easier to split up if you're not married, then you've got a legit single mom on your hands with all the poorer outcomes that entails. Refusing to provide support to an person who wants to leave a relationship leads to several other factors, some on this very list. Indeed, staying in a dysfunctional, unwanted, potentially abusive relationship, just because finances force you to, is worse than the alternative.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  The results of 50yr of various flavors of this policy kind of speak for themselves (which is why I specifically chose to mention it as my example). It's better for society if people get married, (or perform some other socially agreed upon ritual that both requires investment and signals future investment) BEFORE they start cranking out the crotchfruit. Extending more aid to people who skip this step than those who go through it leads to predictable outcomes. I get that it's really easy to play this off as some sort of pro-woman thing and try and send the discussion careening off into left field by bringing up domestic violence but we both know that's a red herring. Edit: It was a mistake to reply to this comment at all. This is all a side discussion (ironic considering the subject of TFA). My point wasn't that you can't have government do things. The point was that you can't just pick a metric and turn government loose trying to address it. The goal of historical welfare was to subsidize basic necessities with certain groups getting priority that was generally accomplished (the programs exist, they doll out bennies pursuant to the rules) but it didn't yield the expected improvement on other fronts as intended and in the process we minted a class of people who are all but trapped in a multi-generational cycle of dependance upon the welfare system.