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I don’t, but what is your alternative suggestion? What important things don’t also have the potential to end badly? Unless your position is a kind of Daoist qu

I don’t, but what is your alternative suggestion? What important things don’t also have the potential to end badly? Unless your position is a kind of Daoist quietism, I’m not sure what you are suggesting instead.

MichaelZuo 2y ago
Why do you believe such alternative suggestions exist? Maybe there aren’t any such that are risk free. So you have to evaluate both the potential upsides and downsides to see if it’s a net positive and worthwhile risk to take.
- keiferski 2y ago
  Then I'm really not sure what exactly you are arguing for or against. The act of making a story that attempts to give meaning to human life and society? How would you evaluate that for potential upsides and downsides, and what are you comparing it against?
  - lupire 2y ago
    Why is "story", which is known to be an accurate model, the preferred model? Why not non-linear dynamical system, epigram, clerihew, or haiku?
    - keiferski 2y ago
      Probably because most of those don't line up with how humans experience the world. Storytelling has a long history in the human experience, while haiku or epigrams aren't really the sort of thing one can "wrap" a life around.
      - nvegater 2y ago
        Humans experience the world as a story, but that is not necessarily the most human way to wrap a life around as you are implying. In some cases there are more powerful frameworks. For example Hitler is wrapped (by most of the world at least) around the damage and pain he caused not around his story. Stories are mostly fine, but thinking that we should strive for that to being the main perspective is limiting.
        piva00 2y ago
        > For example Hitler is wrapped (by most of the world at least) around the damage and pain he caused not around his story. Isn't this exactly part of Hitler's story though? I think I'm misunderstanding what your concept of "story" means.
  - MichaelZuo 2y ago
    I never said anyone had good prospects to complete such an evaluation in a single lifetime… in fact it’s very unlikely to happen. But without that it’s hard to see how such proposals have any merit at all, considering the historical track record.
  - tristor 2y ago
    > Then I'm really not sure what exactly you are arguing for or against. If it helps, neither do they. Given that they are already suggesting Postmodernism provides a valuable philosophical and analytic view to understand the world, it's pretty clear that they've given up on any concept of defining a pathway, outcome, or objective.

MichaelZuo 2y ago

Why do you believe such alternative suggestions exist? Maybe there aren’t any such that are risk free. So you have to evaluate both the potential upsides and downsides to see if it’s a net positive and worthwhile risk to take.

keiferski 2y ago
Then I'm really not sure what exactly you are arguing for or against. The act of making a story that attempts to give meaning to human life and society? How would you evaluate that for potential upsides and downsides, and what are you comparing it against?
- lupire 2y ago
  Why is "story", which is known to be an accurate model, the preferred model? Why not non-linear dynamical system, epigram, clerihew, or haiku?
  - keiferski 2y ago
    Probably because most of those don't line up with how humans experience the world. Storytelling has a long history in the human experience, while haiku or epigrams aren't really the sort of thing one can "wrap" a life around.
    - nvegater 2y ago
      Humans experience the world as a story, but that is not necessarily the most human way to wrap a life around as you are implying. In some cases there are more powerful frameworks. For example Hitler is wrapped (by most of the world at least) around the damage and pain he caused not around his story. Stories are mostly fine, but thinking that we should strive for that to being the main perspective is limiting.
      - piva00 2y ago
        > For example Hitler is wrapped (by most of the world at least) around the damage and pain he caused not around his story. Isn't this exactly part of Hitler's story though? I think I'm misunderstanding what your concept of "story" means.
- MichaelZuo 2y ago
  I never said anyone had good prospects to complete such an evaluation in a single lifetime… in fact it’s very unlikely to happen. But without that it’s hard to see how such proposals have any merit at all, considering the historical track record.
- tristor 2y ago
  > Then I'm really not sure what exactly you are arguing for or against. If it helps, neither do they. Given that they are already suggesting Postmodernism provides a valuable philosophical and analytic view to understand the world, it's pretty clear that they've given up on any concept of defining a pathway, outcome, or objective.