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I highly censor myself on HN as I know most of my views are in the minority, but I'm happy to see your response. To add to your point, I've also found that dev

I highly censor myself on HN as I know most of my views are in the minority, but I'm happy to see your response. To add to your point, I've also found that developing the relational skills necessary to bring a marriage relationship through tricky waters often leads to success in similar, but perhaps not so dire, circumstances. It's also been common knowledge for some time now that children tend to do much better when stability is present in the home. If a child always thinks one of their parents might just up and leave one day, they tend to act accordingly (read: exhibit undesired behaviors). I understand marriage isn't for everyone, and I certainly don't promote it as such, but I also wouldn't advise people to treat marriage as no more than something that can start today and end tomorrow, on a whim.

eastbound 2y ago
> children tend to do much better when stability is present in the home Encouraging relation instability creates children which don’t have the funding on their own to be students. It makes them great candidates for both student loans (US) and subsidies (EU). As a society, that’s what we want; It’s makes every individual miserable, but it fuels the need for public funding.
- olivermuty 2y ago
  I think this take is weird in many ways, but I wanted to focus especially on the fact that in the EU where its free it costs the exact same to fund a student regardless of if parents are divorced.
- GTP 2y ago
  We want to spend more public money? It's weird if you also say that this could be avoided.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
bigfudge 2y ago
There is massive confounding here. Think of the counterfactual — kids who live in a house with a failing relationship, or one where the adults can’t meet each other’s needs. It’s not at all obvious this would be better, and none of the research suggests it’s better for kids for adults to stay in a troubled relationship. In fact the reverse - conflict in the home is a much stronger predictor of poor outcomes than divorce per se.
- andai 2y ago
  Interesting, that's a great point. Last I checked the negative effects of fatherlessness were well studied, but I don't know if it's been compared with the alternative, i.e. being raised by someone who rather would have left! IIRC a low quality father is still better than none (barring abuse, though emotional neglect is now finally coming to be recognized as developmentally impactful), but I really don't know...
  - reverius42 2y ago
    There is such a thing as coparenting while divorced; one need not assume that separation implies that the father ceases to parent.
  - TimPC 2y ago
    It's debatable to what degree they are as most of the studies have massive confounders. Couples that stay together tend to be more affluent than divorced couples because of only needing to pay for and maintain one place of living instead of two. And poverty is a massive confounder in the studies, kids in poverty do a fair bit worse than kids in middle class lifestyles.

eastbound 2y ago

> children tend to do much better when stability is present in the home Encouraging relation instability creates children which don’t have the funding on their own to be students. It makes them great candidates for both student loans (US) and subsidies (EU). As a society, that’s what we want; It’s makes every individual miserable, but it fuels the need for public funding.

olivermuty 2y ago
I think this take is weird in many ways, but I wanted to focus especially on the fact that in the EU where its free it costs the exact same to fund a student regardless of if parents are divorced.
GTP 2y ago
We want to spend more public money? It's weird if you also say that this could be avoided.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]

bigfudge 2y ago

There is massive confounding here. Think of the counterfactual — kids who live in a house with a failing relationship, or one where the adults can’t meet each other’s needs. It’s not at all obvious this would be better, and none of the research suggests it’s better for kids for adults to stay in a troubled relationship. In fact the reverse - conflict in the home is a much stronger predictor of poor outcomes than divorce per se.

andai 2y ago
Interesting, that's a great point. Last I checked the negative effects of fatherlessness were well studied, but I don't know if it's been compared with the alternative, i.e. being raised by someone who rather would have left! IIRC a low quality father is still better than none (barring abuse, though emotional neglect is now finally coming to be recognized as developmentally impactful), but I really don't know...
- reverius42 2y ago
  There is such a thing as coparenting while divorced; one need not assume that separation implies that the father ceases to parent.
- TimPC 2y ago
  It's debatable to what degree they are as most of the studies have massive confounders. Couples that stay together tend to be more affluent than divorced couples because of only needing to pay for and maintain one place of living instead of two. And poverty is a massive confounder in the studies, kids in poverty do a fair bit worse than kids in middle class lifestyles.