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> the author fell right into the category that perpetuates this problem. You're missing the point of the article. The point is that if she does 'highlight grea

> the author fell right into the category that perpetuates this problem. You're missing the point of the article. The point is that if she does 'highlight great articles from the women in tech,' then she would be labeled a "female developer" instead of just a "developer." If she doesn't do this, then she gets labeled a male developer. She would like to be labeled "developer," but the two options she can see lead to undesirable outcomes. This has been said before, but the key thing to take away is the concept of "othering." The author would like to be seen as a developer, not a subcategory of a developer that is somehow different from the norm. Perhaps a better way to demonstrate is to take this to the extreme: "Instead of highlighting great articles from brown-eyed people in tech, or linking to other brown-eyed people in the industry with well trafficked blogs and talking about their contributions, the author fell right into the category that perpetuates this problem." Sounds pretty absurd right? Who cares what their eye color is. On the other hand, imagine if everyone got it wrong. Imagine if you had brown eyes but there was a 'default assumption' that everyone had blue eyes. You wouldn't want to make a fuss every time people got it wrong, for fear of being "that person" who is annoying and pedantic, and "hey, it shouldn't matter! Technology is eye-color blind!" But if you don't do it, it gets a little grating when EVERYONE assumes you are something that you're not. It's a catch-22. The solution is to remove the default assumption that developers are male. That is something that you, not the author, have to do.

sliverstorm 14y ago
Imagine if there was a 'default assumption' that everyone had blue eyes. Maybe you just picked a bad example, but that would mean nothing to me. I actually generally assume brown eyes- but I don't have brown eyes myself...
- khuey 14y ago
  It's a bad example because there's no history of discrimination and oppression against brown-eyed people.
g544s 14y ago
What is the OP's point? That people don't pay attention to the gender of the writer? If someone did a dedicated study about the last 6 months of top Hacker News and top r/programming articles what percentage do we think would be male authors? I would set the over-under at 95%. (Please don't point out that those audiences are sexist because the OP just showed that the readers don't pay attention to the gender of authors.) For the record I think there is sexism in tech but it mostly starts in jr high and high school - at least in the US.
Volpe 14y ago
With you're example highlights the amount of 'hype' around the issue though. If someone assumed I was brown-eyed (when in fact I'm blue), I'm not going to write about it, because it is a non-issue. The issue is around the stigma we place around 'female developers' not the fact we (mis)identify them.
- wickedchicken 14y ago
  > If someone assumed I was brown-eyed (when in fact I'm blue), I'm not going to write about it, because it is a non-issue. (for the sake of argument I'm going to assume you're male). Imagine you moved to a country with a different language, and your given name sounded feminine in that language. Every time someone met you in person they would look at you strange and go "oh, I'm sorry! I thought you were a woman!" Perhaps you would be assigned to the female dormitory if you studied abroad there, and embarrassingly had to file paperwork to change that. Would you want to make a small note on your email signature saying "I'm a man!"? I know I would. This is something you would write about, because it kind of is an issue. These are the kinds of things female developers have to deal with all the time: "wait, you're here for the conference? As a developer? I'm sorry, I didn't realize!" "Okay, but you're not like a developer developer, right?" This shouldn't be the case. The annoying thing is that if a woman writes a note saying "I'm a woman!," they get put in a different class of developer than if they left it off.
  - lmm 14y ago
    The solution is to let it emerge naturally and subtly. Like the advice I've seen given to gays: don't have a big dramatic "coming out", just have a picture of your partner on your desk and let it come up naturally in conversation. Sure, plenty of people will assume you're male (or straight) to start with. But keep writing good technical articles and don't hide your gender, let it come up naturally - just don't make a big fuss about it on day 1. If people read stuff you write, and appreciate your technical competence, and then realise you're female /once they already respect your technical ability/, then the attitude the OP complains about will change.
    - 14y ago
clockstrikesten 14y ago
No. What's absurd is that Amber Yust reaped all the benefits of having blue eyes in her profession for most of her life, and then proceeded to author this article about how it's wrong to assume that people in her profession have blue eyes, written with all the fury of someone who had brown eyes for their entire life. I say this because she has a Y chromosome and only updated her driver's license to read Female one year ago.
- param 14y ago
  This has to be one of the most mind blowing Ad Hominem arguments I have ever seen. Not because it is insulting or anything, but it is just unexpected!
  - clockstrikesten 14y ago
    I was not making an argument; I was stating a fact. Refraining from addressing someone's statement other than to label it "ad hominem" is itself an ad hominem argument, however. The major thrust of her article is where she presents herself as the typical specimen proving that women both exist in the tech world in large numbers and are oppressed by pronouns in comments on the internet. Unfortunately, her chromosomes, as well as the male privilege she spent the majority of her life reaping the benefits from, make her the ultimate antithesis of her own point, and she does the opposite of dispelling any stereotypes people may harbor.
    - param 14y ago
      Ok, its been about 10 hrs, so maybe you would be able to read this comment objectively: 1. An Ad-Hominem argument is one where you attack the other based on their credentials to have an opinion on an issue without commenting on the argument itself. That's specifically what you did. 2. >>"Refraining from addressing someone's statement other than to label it "ad hominem" is itself an ad hominem argument, however." -- this is a weird piece of logic I must say. See definition of ad hominem above. Where did I challenge your "statement" by saying that you are not un-biased enough to have an opinion. If you still disagree, see http://paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://paulgraham.com/disagree.html and let me know what I am missing 3. Let me respond to your main argument as well - you say that the fact she was a guy "does the opposite of dispelling any stereotypes people may harbor" - ONE - not everyone knows she was a guy. Therefore, most people would take the argument for what it is and think about it. TWO - even if people know she was a guy, why do you assume that other readers are primitive enough that they will let that be a factor? Note - they aren't seeing her in real life - they are just reading an article at their leisure.

sliverstorm 14y ago

Imagine if there was a 'default assumption' that everyone had blue eyes. Maybe you just picked a bad example, but that would mean nothing to me. I actually generally assume brown eyes- but I don't have brown eyes myself...

khuey 14y ago
It's a bad example because there's no history of discrimination and oppression against brown-eyed people.

g544s 14y ago

What is the OP's point? That people don't pay attention to the gender of the writer? If someone did a dedicated study about the last 6 months of top Hacker News and top r/programming articles what percentage do we think would be male authors? I would set the over-under at 95%. (Please don't point out that those audiences are sexist because the OP just showed that the readers don't pay attention to the gender of authors.) For the record I think there is sexism in tech but it mostly starts in jr high and high school - at least in the US.

Volpe 14y ago

With you're example highlights the amount of 'hype' around the issue though. If someone assumed I was brown-eyed (when in fact I'm blue), I'm not going to write about it, because it is a non-issue. The issue is around the stigma we place around 'female developers' not the fact we (mis)identify them.

wickedchicken 14y ago
> If someone assumed I was brown-eyed (when in fact I'm blue), I'm not going to write about it, because it is a non-issue. (for the sake of argument I'm going to assume you're male). Imagine you moved to a country with a different language, and your given name sounded feminine in that language. Every time someone met you in person they would look at you strange and go "oh, I'm sorry! I thought you were a woman!" Perhaps you would be assigned to the female dormitory if you studied abroad there, and embarrassingly had to file paperwork to change that. Would you want to make a small note on your email signature saying "I'm a man!"? I know I would. This is something you would write about, because it kind of is an issue. These are the kinds of things female developers have to deal with all the time: "wait, you're here for the conference? As a developer? I'm sorry, I didn't realize!" "Okay, but you're not like a developer developer, right?" This shouldn't be the case. The annoying thing is that if a woman writes a note saying "I'm a woman!," they get put in a different class of developer than if they left it off.
- lmm 14y ago
  The solution is to let it emerge naturally and subtly. Like the advice I've seen given to gays: don't have a big dramatic "coming out", just have a picture of your partner on your desk and let it come up naturally in conversation. Sure, plenty of people will assume you're male (or straight) to start with. But keep writing good technical articles and don't hide your gender, let it come up naturally - just don't make a big fuss about it on day 1. If people read stuff you write, and appreciate your technical competence, and then realise you're female /once they already respect your technical ability/, then the attitude the OP complains about will change.
  - 14y ago

clockstrikesten 14y ago

No. What's absurd is that Amber Yust reaped all the benefits of having blue eyes in her profession for most of her life, and then proceeded to author this article about how it's wrong to assume that people in her profession have blue eyes, written with all the fury of someone who had brown eyes for their entire life. I say this because she has a Y chromosome and only updated her driver's license to read Female one year ago.

param 14y ago
This has to be one of the most mind blowing Ad Hominem arguments I have ever seen. Not because it is insulting or anything, but it is just unexpected!
- clockstrikesten 14y ago
  I was not making an argument; I was stating a fact. Refraining from addressing someone's statement other than to label it "ad hominem" is itself an ad hominem argument, however. The major thrust of her article is where she presents herself as the typical specimen proving that women both exist in the tech world in large numbers and are oppressed by pronouns in comments on the internet. Unfortunately, her chromosomes, as well as the male privilege she spent the majority of her life reaping the benefits from, make her the ultimate antithesis of her own point, and she does the opposite of dispelling any stereotypes people may harbor.
  - param 14y ago
    Ok, its been about 10 hrs, so maybe you would be able to read this comment objectively: 1. An Ad-Hominem argument is one where you attack the other based on their credentials to have an opinion on an issue without commenting on the argument itself. That's specifically what you did. 2. >>"Refraining from addressing someone's statement other than to label it "ad hominem" is itself an ad hominem argument, however." -- this is a weird piece of logic I must say. See definition of ad hominem above. Where did I challenge your "statement" by saying that you are not un-biased enough to have an opinion. If you still disagree, see http://paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://paulgraham.com/disagree.html and let me know what I am missing 3. Let me respond to your main argument as well - you say that the fact she was a guy "does the opposite of dispelling any stereotypes people may harbor" - ONE - not everyone knows she was a guy. Therefore, most people would take the argument for what it is and think about it. TWO - even if people know she was a guy, why do you assume that other readers are primitive enough that they will let that be a factor? Note - they aren't seeing her in real life - they are just reading an article at their leisure.