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I went to one of these male group therapy things before and it was icky and weird. The facilitator was a gay guy wearing earrings and lipstick. One of the other

I went to one of these male group therapy things before and it was icky and weird. The facilitator was a gay guy wearing earrings and lipstick. One of the other guys there was a plumber or something like that. He was trying to talk about his wife when another guy cut in and started telling some sob story about his feelings. The whole thing felt passive aggressive and like a fight was about to break out. There's two kinds of intimate guy spaces: "brotherhood" oriented ones, where you NEVER cry; and "therapy" ones, where you're expected to cry. The "therapy" people keep trying to sell these group therapy sessions as "brotherhood" sessions and when the poor brotherhood schmucks show up they get grossed out and ganged up on by the sobbers.

phil-martin 2y ago
That would have been a tough environment to walk into, having your instincts shout at you there was a fight about break out. I think there are a lot more than just two types of intimate spaces for men. The best part is people have the ability to create new spaces, then keep iterating and trying new ideas. And even more excitingly they aren’t static, they can change and adapt to what the people in the group need. To use a part of your anecdote, that therapy group you went to sounded like not what you wanted or needed at the time. But one could imagine another guy walking in and see the facilitator with earrings and lipstick and say to themselves “oh this is amazing, I feel safe here knowing I can wear makeup and won’t be ridiculed” It’s different for everyone. Each individual has a responsibility to create and shape the world to be better, depending on their capacity, sphere of influence and ability to do so. Right now my capacity is very low, so I’m depending on others for support. But in the future I very much hope to set up groups or ways for guys to connect in a way that fits what I wish I had access to. One specific example of when I’ve these this implemented exceptionally well is a wood working group I saw. The premise is you come and do carpentry, but what really happens is trust is built up over time. At some point an thereshold is reached where newer people feel safe enough to share, and then were able to talk about things going on in their life and get some practical support and advice. It’s so rare so see such an effective blend of what you described as the extremes of brotherhood or therapy sessions.
- sandspar 2y ago
  You're right, in a way. This kind of speaking style you use is very welcome in the "therapy" areas but would be considered passive aggressive or creepy in the "brotherhood" ones. Using "therapy speak" on people who have said they dislike it (like you're using with me) is generally considered an insult, since it implies that I'm not your equal. You're basically talking down to me in a circuitous way which makes it difficult for me to address it directly. Right now, to a naive outsider, you are being the polite one and I'm being the impolite one, when in truth it's the opposite.
mock-possum 2y ago
Curious, what does the facilitator’s sexuality and fashion choice have to do with anything? Why would you bring it up and describe it specifically, after using the words “icky and weird?”
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- sandspar 2y ago
  Another good example of the "pretending to be polite but secretly aggressive" behavior that's so prevalent in group therapy. Thank you for demonstrating it.
  - mock-possum 2y ago
    It’s an attempt to get you to clarify whether you’re being openly homophobic, or if you just come off that way unintentionally. What does it matter whether he was gay and dressing a bit fem?

phil-martin 2y ago

That would have been a tough environment to walk into, having your instincts shout at you there was a fight about break out. I think there are a lot more than just two types of intimate spaces for men. The best part is people have the ability to create new spaces, then keep iterating and trying new ideas. And even more excitingly they aren’t static, they can change and adapt to what the people in the group need. To use a part of your anecdote, that therapy group you went to sounded like not what you wanted or needed at the time. But one could imagine another guy walking in and see the facilitator with earrings and lipstick and say to themselves “oh this is amazing, I feel safe here knowing I can wear makeup and won’t be ridiculed” It’s different for everyone. Each individual has a responsibility to create and shape the world to be better, depending on their capacity, sphere of influence and ability to do so. Right now my capacity is very low, so I’m depending on others for support. But in the future I very much hope to set up groups or ways for guys to connect in a way that fits what I wish I had access to. One specific example of when I’ve these this implemented exceptionally well is a wood working group I saw. The premise is you come and do carpentry, but what really happens is trust is built up over time. At some point an thereshold is reached where newer people feel safe enough to share, and then were able to talk about things going on in their life and get some practical support and advice. It’s so rare so see such an effective blend of what you described as the extremes of brotherhood or therapy sessions.

sandspar 2y ago
You're right, in a way. This kind of speaking style you use is very welcome in the "therapy" areas but would be considered passive aggressive or creepy in the "brotherhood" ones. Using "therapy speak" on people who have said they dislike it (like you're using with me) is generally considered an insult, since it implies that I'm not your equal. You're basically talking down to me in a circuitous way which makes it difficult for me to address it directly. Right now, to a naive outsider, you are being the polite one and I'm being the impolite one, when in truth it's the opposite.

mock-possum 2y ago

Curious, what does the facilitator’s sexuality and fashion choice have to do with anything? Why would you bring it up and describe it specifically, after using the words “icky and weird?”

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
sandspar 2y ago
Another good example of the "pretending to be polite but secretly aggressive" behavior that's so prevalent in group therapy. Thank you for demonstrating it.
- mock-possum 2y ago
  It’s an attempt to get you to clarify whether you’re being openly homophobic, or if you just come off that way unintentionally. What does it matter whether he was gay and dressing a bit fem?