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Serves Qualcomm right for front-loading so much Windows support and not engaging with the Linux community sooner. Every single person I've seen express interest

Serves Qualcomm right for front-loading so much Windows support and not engaging with the Linux community sooner. Every single person I've seen express interest in this device, wants it for Linux (dev or to try as a daily driver).

999900000999 2y ago
Those are my thoughts exactly! I was going to buy this day 1, then I found out Linux support wasn't ready and I went with a new AMD 365 laptop instead. This was it's own adventure, with Ubuntu not working out of the box, so I had to go with a rolling release distro. It's been months and I think Ubuntu might boot on the Thinkpad 14s. It's definitely not supported as a daily driver, or on any other hardware.
- entropicdrifter 2y ago
  Ubuntu released a special version for the SXE chip that specifically listed the Thinkpad 14s as the best-supported PC with the chip.
  - dman 2y ago
    If you are playing your cards right, its best to be on mainline kernels and in the stock non-lts release by default in most distros.
    - treypitt 2y ago
      Why non-LTS out of curiosity?
      - sobkas 2y ago
        > Why non-LTS out of curiosity? Based on my experience, more recent kernel versions have more fixes/better support for recent hardware(or sometimes not so recent). LTS doesn't backport everything from later releases for obvious reasons.
      - dman 2y ago
        Expecting hardware companies to get things ready so much ahead of time that they make the cut for a LTS release might lean towards being too unrealistic since LTS releases have a fair bit of gap between them.
    - entropicdrifter 2y ago
      I don't disagree, but a kernel that works right now is better than not having any.
sethops1 2y ago
Add me to the list. Fortunately there's great progress being made getting Linux on the Volterra Windows Dev Kits from 2023.
ChocolateGod 2y ago
> Every single person I've seen express interest in this device, wants it for Linux (dev or to try as a daily driver). Does Linux still require specific images with patches to be built for every SBC/device?
- jsheard 2y ago
  Technically no if you get a machine with ARM SystemReady certification, but effectively yes in practice because zero affordable SBCs meet that criteria. I think the Ampere Altras are the only ones you can easily buy, and those start at $1400 for a bare motherboard and CPU combo with no RAM included. https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-ampere-altra-max-ampere-altra-processors/p/N82E16813140134 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-amp...
- aidenn0 2y ago
  It depends on what you mean by "every SBC/device" and "specific images" If your SBC requires things not in mainline linux (which is common for new ARM SoCs), then you will need a custom kernel. Otherwise it can use a stock kernel, but might need a custom version of uboot, and will definitely need a board-specific device-tree.
  - Y_Y 2y ago
    Fuck device trees so much. Is there some fundamental impediment to having the same "plug 'n play" experience that we've have on x86 IBM-clone descendants for thirty years?
    - ComputerGuru 2y ago
      Yes. Lack of BIOS or EFI. And ACPI. And. and. and.
      - Y_Y 2y ago
        You're right, in the sense that the standards that enable this magic are not present on Arm SBCs, but I wouldn't consider that "fundamental". Arm is at least theoretically on board with UEFI, for example, and there are implementors making boards that support it. What I'm really asking is if a sufficiently determined person couldn't have avoided all these headaches by building and/or standardizing equivalent technologies. (And if it's possible why hasn't it happened yet?)
TiredOfLife 2y ago
What does a crappy hardware product that couldn't get fcc certification has to do with Linux?
wmf 2y ago
Qualcomm showed Linux working in October 2023 yet here in October 2024 Linux does not work. I don't get it.
- sobkas 2y ago
  > Qualcomm showed Linux working in October 2023 yet here in October 2024 Linux does not work. I don't get it. Curse of Android, Qualcomm lived for so long with permanently forked kernel, that there is no pressure on code quality, only thing they know is how to sling minimally viable platform code at their unfortunate customers. No one cares about maintainability of it, because even before code has a chance to stabilise, there is already new model to be released, new hardware to be supported. At this point no one cares about old hardware.
- wtallis 2y ago
  I'm sure Linux still works, more or less, on Qualcomm's reference design laptop. But that one isn't available to customers, and they failed to enable usable Linux support on their platform as a whole.

999900000999 2y ago

Those are my thoughts exactly! I was going to buy this day 1, then I found out Linux support wasn't ready and I went with a new AMD 365 laptop instead. This was it's own adventure, with Ubuntu not working out of the box, so I had to go with a rolling release distro. It's been months and I think Ubuntu might boot on the Thinkpad 14s. It's definitely not supported as a daily driver, or on any other hardware.

entropicdrifter 2y ago
Ubuntu released a special version for the SXE chip that specifically listed the Thinkpad 14s as the best-supported PC with the chip.
- dman 2y ago
  If you are playing your cards right, its best to be on mainline kernels and in the stock non-lts release by default in most distros.
  - treypitt 2y ago
    Why non-LTS out of curiosity?
    - sobkas 2y ago
      > Why non-LTS out of curiosity? Based on my experience, more recent kernel versions have more fixes/better support for recent hardware(or sometimes not so recent). LTS doesn't backport everything from later releases for obvious reasons.
    - dman 2y ago
      Expecting hardware companies to get things ready so much ahead of time that they make the cut for a LTS release might lean towards being too unrealistic since LTS releases have a fair bit of gap between them.
  - entropicdrifter 2y ago
    I don't disagree, but a kernel that works right now is better than not having any.

sethops1 2y ago

Add me to the list. Fortunately there's great progress being made getting Linux on the Volterra Windows Dev Kits from 2023.

ChocolateGod 2y ago

> Every single person I've seen express interest in this device, wants it for Linux (dev or to try as a daily driver). Does Linux still require specific images with patches to be built for every SBC/device?

jsheard 2y ago
Technically no if you get a machine with ARM SystemReady certification, but effectively yes in practice because zero affordable SBCs meet that criteria. I think the Ampere Altras are the only ones you can easily buy, and those start at $1400 for a bare motherboard and CPU combo with no RAM included. https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-ampere-altra-max-ampere-altra-processors/p/N82E16813140134 https://www.newegg.com/asrock-rack-altrad8ud-1l2t-q64-22-amp...
aidenn0 2y ago
It depends on what you mean by "every SBC/device" and "specific images" If your SBC requires things not in mainline linux (which is common for new ARM SoCs), then you will need a custom kernel. Otherwise it can use a stock kernel, but might need a custom version of uboot, and will definitely need a board-specific device-tree.
- Y_Y 2y ago
  Fuck device trees so much. Is there some fundamental impediment to having the same "plug 'n play" experience that we've have on x86 IBM-clone descendants for thirty years?
  - ComputerGuru 2y ago
    Yes. Lack of BIOS or EFI. And ACPI. And. and. and.
    - Y_Y 2y ago
      You're right, in the sense that the standards that enable this magic are not present on Arm SBCs, but I wouldn't consider that "fundamental". Arm is at least theoretically on board with UEFI, for example, and there are implementors making boards that support it. What I'm really asking is if a sufficiently determined person couldn't have avoided all these headaches by building and/or standardizing equivalent technologies. (And if it's possible why hasn't it happened yet?)

TiredOfLife 2y ago

What does a crappy hardware product that couldn't get fcc certification has to do with Linux?

wmf 2y ago

Qualcomm showed Linux working in October 2023 yet here in October 2024 Linux does not work. I don't get it.

sobkas 2y ago
> Qualcomm showed Linux working in October 2023 yet here in October 2024 Linux does not work. I don't get it. Curse of Android, Qualcomm lived for so long with permanently forked kernel, that there is no pressure on code quality, only thing they know is how to sling minimally viable platform code at their unfortunate customers. No one cares about maintainability of it, because even before code has a chance to stabilise, there is already new model to be released, new hardware to be supported. At this point no one cares about old hardware.
wtallis 2y ago
I'm sure Linux still works, more or less, on Qualcomm's reference design laptop. But that one isn't available to customers, and they failed to enable usable Linux support on their platform as a whole.