5 ms·

A couple jobs ago (pre-pandemic) I was at a remote company that put some effort into 1 & 2 that I've become big proponents of. Allocate $300 per person to get

A couple jobs ago (pre-pandemic) I was at a remote company that put some effort into 1 & 2 that I've become big proponents of. Allocate $300 per person to get everyone a podcaster mic and a pair of open backed headphones to plug into it as a monitor so you hear your own voice through your headphones. It removes the feeling that you need to speak loudly to be heard, which is a lot of the fatigue. And if both parties are using this setup, it greatly reduces the "only one person can speak at a time" feeling, allowing you to use more natural vocal interactions without feeling like you're interrupting. Together it makes a huge difference. I have audio processing and sensory problems and used to be so drained after a 40 minute zoom meeting. With this setup I can spend 4 hours a day pair programming and be appropriately tired but not exhausted. Your 3-4 and large meetings with executives screaming into their laptops from coworking spaces I have no solutions for however.

capitainenemo 2y ago
I personally use a single over the ear [headphone with directional] mic because I want to hear everything around me normally (and myself). They are super cheap, and for jitsi/zoom/teams I don't normally need directional sound. It's also easier on my ears than earbuds. Esp if someone is too loud. I just tip it back a bit. *inserted [] for clarity
- nuancebydefault 2y ago
  Over the ear mic?
  - capitainenemo 2y ago
    Sorry should have been clearer. One ear headphone with directional mic.
dgarrett 2y ago
I know it's not exactly the point, but would you mind sharing what specific mic and headphones you went with for this? It can help to get a sense of what to look for to create a similar setup.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  Yeti blue mic and phillips fidelio headphones. This was just the "standard package" that company recommended for new hires and we were given a one time setup stipend for what they cost at the time. I didn't shop around and haven't changed anything since, there may be better options now. I have the mic on an arm to cut down on bumps and typing transmitting through the desk, but I find it doesn't have to be right in my face. I have it above the monitor, out of view of the camera. YMMV depending on room echo, my walls are bookshelves which is pretty good as treatment.
shmel 2y ago
Absolutely. I hoped that the pandemic made everyone realize that laptop mics suck. Even a cheap $20 headset is better than nothing.
- rogerrogerr 2y ago
  MacBook mics are more than acceptable.
  - capitainenemo 2y ago
    I can very much tell when my boss is using his macbook mic vs headphone directional mic.
  - datadrivenangel 2y ago
    My MacBook Pro's Mic is as good as my entry-level dedicated microphone.
  - delecti 2y ago
    The benefit of a headset is not solely the improved microphone, it's also that the headphones mean your microphone is only picking up your speech, and not your meeting's output audio. If you are using both your laptop's microphone and speakers, then Teams/Zoom has to decide whether to play audio to you, or pick up audio from you. If you're talking at the same time as someone else, the audio quality for everyone in the meeting suffers.
    - avidiax 2y ago
      Modern systems don't work in a half-duplex mode like this. All laptop speaker/mic combos use AEC[1], where they can both playout and pickup at the same time. There is actually 2 layers of this in many systems, one provided by your device, and a 2nd layer provided in software by Zoom/Teams/Meet etc. What can happen is that the meeting audio is a mixture of the top-N loudest participants. N+1 people talking will conflict badly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_suppression_and_cancellation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_suppression_and_cancellat...
Ductapemaster 2y ago
I optimized for this style setup about a year into the pandemic, but using a Beyerdynamic MX300 wired gaming headset. The headset is closed-back, so to get voice feedback ("sidetone") I use an inexpensive Behringer XENYX USB302 mixer. It allows for adjusting the mic/audio mix going to my headphones, and also is a USB audio interface. This setup is as minimal as I was able to get it: no big booms on my desk to move around, microphones blocking my video, etc. Yeah, I look like a pilot on calls, but the audio quality is amazing. Also, the mic being close to me blocks background noise, and isolates it from my desk. Sometimes my colleagues with podcaster-style mics have issues with mechanical transmission from their desk setups, while I have none. People often comment — even to this day — about my audio quality. I talk to people all day, being in sales, and it makes a huge difference in my presence and professionalism. Absolutely worth every penny I spent. As a side note, I also use my iPhone as my webcam (continuity cam I think it's called) along with a couple Logitech lights on my monitor, and the overall quality of my digital presence often blows people away.
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  It surprises me how many people in sales, marketing and other external facing roles don't optimize their AV setup. Honestly I'm sort of surprised that there isn't training about this given how much sales training people go through. Presentation is HUGE. A good mic, a proper camera, and even just minor consideration for lighting make anyone so much more credible, and pleasant to talk to.
  - Ductapemaster 2y ago
    It really does surprise me too. Myself and my team are all technical sales folks with engineering backgrounds, and we naturally optimize for this sort of thing — all of us have some form of “advanced” setup that’s been informed by each other’s investment. On the other side, NONE of our account reps have anything remotely close. I can think of one or two times in the past few years when someone asked me about what tech I use. My company even has a home office budget benefit meant for exactly this sort of thing!
  - type0 2y ago
drdaeman 2y ago
> And if both parties are using this setup, it greatly reduces the "only one person can speak at a time" feeling, allowing you to use more natural vocal interactions without feeling like you're interrupting. How does it work? Asking, because I always have this issue in 3+ person calls, where I'm frequently starting to talk just about when someone else does, ending up in those awkward "oh sorry you go please" moments. That makes me prefer to not say anything at all unless explicitly talked to. I always assumed that my issue is that I'm just a slow-thinking dumbass who can't get the cues in time (which is true, because it happens in face-to-face in-person conversations as well, just less frequently), but maybe it's a technical issue contributing to it?
- MarioMan 2y ago
  That's a latency issue, and there's no real fix for that. The parent commenter, I believe, is talking about the problem where people use speakers and active noise cancellation, which makes it impractical to speak and be heard at the same time; the noise cancellation will ruin the speaker-user's mic audio while it has to cancel out another speaker. Headphones, worn by all parties, resolves this issue.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  I might be wrong on some of this because I'm not that knowledgeable about the mechanics of it. But I think video conferencing software is built around the assumption that people are using their speakers and so the output is also picked up by the mic. So some of it is increased latency caused by filtering that out. And then it keeps people basically muted until it determines they're trying to speak, and there's a delay with it toggling. If you're using a mic and headphones at all though, there are settings that cut a lot of that out. They're usually kind of inscrutable like in zoom IIRC it's called "audio for musicians" or something like that. If both people are using headphones and have those settings on, it removes most of that "switching talker" latency. As you add more people it's harder and harder to get everyone configured correctly, which is why having company buy-in and policy is important. Sheer network latency comes into play too, but most people working from home probably have acceptable connections.
zten 2y ago
This is tricky to do correctly if you don't want to look like one of three things: 1. Podcast bro / Twitch streamer (giant mic inches from face) 2. Gamer (headphones with or without a headset mic) 3. Call center employee (open back mono headset with mic) Turning off video is obviously the fastest fix to this. But assuming you don't want to do that... You'll find a lot of people hate wearing headphones since it messes up their hairstyle or just looks distracting or some other sensory issue with having something clamped to your head. Earbuds work better for them; as long as the mic can't hear other speakers, the annoyance of half-duplex audio is eliminated. The mic problem is harder if you don't want something obvious in frame. Lav mics work if you know how/where to attach one and to minimize clothing movement noise. Other options will require some level of room treatment if the mic isn't close to the speaker's mouth.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  I suspect there are fashion/social signaling type reasons why streamers and podcasters put the mic visibly in frame. I found it wasn't difficult at all to get it out of the camera view with a minor but acceptable quality loss and no echo. My walls are mostly bookshelves which helps but is not exceptional.
  - siliconpotato 2y ago
    you probably have a condenser mic. dynamic mics should be 1-2 inches away from your audio source (think of a handheld mic)
J_Shelby_J 2y ago
I’ve done a deep dive into this and have a setup I’m fairly happy with. It doesn’t sound as good as a “podcast” mic, but it’s also not obnoxious and in your face. While sounding worlds better than apple or gaming headsets. I detail in this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/why-is-professional-audio-in-the-wfh-age-so-difficult.46268/page-2 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/w... It’s a wired headset with a condenser mic I feed into a daw with real-time compressor and eq. No software required or processing done on the computer. The only thing I’m missing is a wireless headset with audio in and out that can be routed to the DAW. Wireless headsets connect to the computer via usb which is a shame. All of my friends use steelseries and it sucks because I constantly have to ride their volume levels because the boom arm moves out the ideal position and they don’t have a leveler to do deal with it.
carlmr 2y ago
>Allocate $300 per person to get everyone a podcaster mic and a pair of open backed headphones to plug into it as a monitor How's your experience with this regarding soundproofing the room. Is normal noise filtering fine? I assume you have the mic on a boom with a pop filter.

capitainenemo 2y ago

I personally use a single over the ear [headphone with directional] mic because I want to hear everything around me normally (and myself). They are super cheap, and for jitsi/zoom/teams I don't normally need directional sound. It's also easier on my ears than earbuds. Esp if someone is too loud. I just tip it back a bit. *inserted [] for clarity

nuancebydefault 2y ago
Over the ear mic?
- capitainenemo 2y ago
  Sorry should have been clearer. One ear headphone with directional mic.

dgarrett 2y ago

I know it's not exactly the point, but would you mind sharing what specific mic and headphones you went with for this? It can help to get a sense of what to look for to create a similar setup.

giraffe_lady 2y ago
Yeti blue mic and phillips fidelio headphones. This was just the "standard package" that company recommended for new hires and we were given a one time setup stipend for what they cost at the time. I didn't shop around and haven't changed anything since, there may be better options now. I have the mic on an arm to cut down on bumps and typing transmitting through the desk, but I find it doesn't have to be right in my face. I have it above the monitor, out of view of the camera. YMMV depending on room echo, my walls are bookshelves which is pretty good as treatment.

shmel 2y ago

Absolutely. I hoped that the pandemic made everyone realize that laptop mics suck. Even a cheap $20 headset is better than nothing.

rogerrogerr 2y ago
MacBook mics are more than acceptable.
- capitainenemo 2y ago
  I can very much tell when my boss is using his macbook mic vs headphone directional mic.
- datadrivenangel 2y ago
  My MacBook Pro's Mic is as good as my entry-level dedicated microphone.
- delecti 2y ago
  The benefit of a headset is not solely the improved microphone, it's also that the headphones mean your microphone is only picking up your speech, and not your meeting's output audio. If you are using both your laptop's microphone and speakers, then Teams/Zoom has to decide whether to play audio to you, or pick up audio from you. If you're talking at the same time as someone else, the audio quality for everyone in the meeting suffers.
  - avidiax 2y ago
    Modern systems don't work in a half-duplex mode like this. All laptop speaker/mic combos use AEC[1], where they can both playout and pickup at the same time. There is actually 2 layers of this in many systems, one provided by your device, and a 2nd layer provided in software by Zoom/Teams/Meet etc. What can happen is that the meeting audio is a mixture of the top-N loudest participants. N+1 people talking will conflict badly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_suppression_and_cancellation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_suppression_and_cancellat...

Ductapemaster 2y ago

I optimized for this style setup about a year into the pandemic, but using a Beyerdynamic MX300 wired gaming headset. The headset is closed-back, so to get voice feedback ("sidetone") I use an inexpensive Behringer XENYX USB302 mixer. It allows for adjusting the mic/audio mix going to my headphones, and also is a USB audio interface. This setup is as minimal as I was able to get it: no big booms on my desk to move around, microphones blocking my video, etc. Yeah, I look like a pilot on calls, but the audio quality is amazing. Also, the mic being close to me blocks background noise, and isolates it from my desk. Sometimes my colleagues with podcaster-style mics have issues with mechanical transmission from their desk setups, while I have none. People often comment — even to this day — about my audio quality. I talk to people all day, being in sales, and it makes a huge difference in my presence and professionalism. Absolutely worth every penny I spent. As a side note, I also use my iPhone as my webcam (continuity cam I think it's called) along with a couple Logitech lights on my monitor, and the overall quality of my digital presence often blows people away.

dghlsakjg 2y ago
It surprises me how many people in sales, marketing and other external facing roles don't optimize their AV setup. Honestly I'm sort of surprised that there isn't training about this given how much sales training people go through. Presentation is HUGE. A good mic, a proper camera, and even just minor consideration for lighting make anyone so much more credible, and pleasant to talk to.
- Ductapemaster 2y ago
  It really does surprise me too. Myself and my team are all technical sales folks with engineering backgrounds, and we naturally optimize for this sort of thing — all of us have some form of “advanced” setup that’s been informed by each other’s investment. On the other side, NONE of our account reps have anything remotely close. I can think of one or two times in the past few years when someone asked me about what tech I use. My company even has a home office budget benefit meant for exactly this sort of thing!
- type0 2y ago

drdaeman 2y ago

> And if both parties are using this setup, it greatly reduces the "only one person can speak at a time" feeling, allowing you to use more natural vocal interactions without feeling like you're interrupting. How does it work? Asking, because I always have this issue in 3+ person calls, where I'm frequently starting to talk just about when someone else does, ending up in those awkward "oh sorry you go please" moments. That makes me prefer to not say anything at all unless explicitly talked to. I always assumed that my issue is that I'm just a slow-thinking dumbass who can't get the cues in time (which is true, because it happens in face-to-face in-person conversations as well, just less frequently), but maybe it's a technical issue contributing to it?

MarioMan 2y ago
That's a latency issue, and there's no real fix for that. The parent commenter, I believe, is talking about the problem where people use speakers and active noise cancellation, which makes it impractical to speak and be heard at the same time; the noise cancellation will ruin the speaker-user's mic audio while it has to cancel out another speaker. Headphones, worn by all parties, resolves this issue.
giraffe_lady 2y ago
I might be wrong on some of this because I'm not that knowledgeable about the mechanics of it. But I think video conferencing software is built around the assumption that people are using their speakers and so the output is also picked up by the mic. So some of it is increased latency caused by filtering that out. And then it keeps people basically muted until it determines they're trying to speak, and there's a delay with it toggling. If you're using a mic and headphones at all though, there are settings that cut a lot of that out. They're usually kind of inscrutable like in zoom IIRC it's called "audio for musicians" or something like that. If both people are using headphones and have those settings on, it removes most of that "switching talker" latency. As you add more people it's harder and harder to get everyone configured correctly, which is why having company buy-in and policy is important. Sheer network latency comes into play too, but most people working from home probably have acceptable connections.

zten 2y ago

This is tricky to do correctly if you don't want to look like one of three things: 1. Podcast bro / Twitch streamer (giant mic inches from face) 2. Gamer (headphones with or without a headset mic) 3. Call center employee (open back mono headset with mic) Turning off video is obviously the fastest fix to this. But assuming you don't want to do that... You'll find a lot of people hate wearing headphones since it messes up their hairstyle or just looks distracting or some other sensory issue with having something clamped to your head. Earbuds work better for them; as long as the mic can't hear other speakers, the annoyance of half-duplex audio is eliminated. The mic problem is harder if you don't want something obvious in frame. Lav mics work if you know how/where to attach one and to minimize clothing movement noise. Other options will require some level of room treatment if the mic isn't close to the speaker's mouth.

giraffe_lady 2y ago
I suspect there are fashion/social signaling type reasons why streamers and podcasters put the mic visibly in frame. I found it wasn't difficult at all to get it out of the camera view with a minor but acceptable quality loss and no echo. My walls are mostly bookshelves which helps but is not exceptional.
- siliconpotato 2y ago
  you probably have a condenser mic. dynamic mics should be 1-2 inches away from your audio source (think of a handheld mic)

J_Shelby_J 2y ago

I’ve done a deep dive into this and have a setup I’m fairly happy with. It doesn’t sound as good as a “podcast” mic, but it’s also not obnoxious and in your face. While sounding worlds better than apple or gaming headsets. I detail in this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/why-is-professional-audio-in-the-wfh-age-so-difficult.46268/page-2 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/w... It’s a wired headset with a condenser mic I feed into a daw with real-time compressor and eq. No software required or processing done on the computer. The only thing I’m missing is a wireless headset with audio in and out that can be routed to the DAW. Wireless headsets connect to the computer via usb which is a shame. All of my friends use steelseries and it sucks because I constantly have to ride their volume levels because the boom arm moves out the ideal position and they don’t have a leveler to do deal with it.

carlmr 2y ago

>Allocate $300 per person to get everyone a podcaster mic and a pair of open backed headphones to plug into it as a monitor How's your experience with this regarding soundproofing the room. Is normal noise filtering fine? I assume you have the mic on a boom with a pop filter.