7 ms·

Interestingly, a lot of the “pain points” highlighted here between in-person and zoom-based communication align with my experiences as a “neurodivergent” person

• giraffe_lady 2y ago
  A couple jobs ago (pre-pandemic) I was at a remote company that put some effort into 1 & 2 that I've become big proponents of. Allocate $300 per person to get everyone a podcaster mic and a pair of open backed headphones to plug into it as a monitor so you hear your own voice through your headphones. It removes the feeling that you need to speak loudly to be heard, which is a lot of the fatigue. And if both parties are using this setup, it greatly reduces the "only one person can speak at a time" feeling, allowing you to use more natural vocal interactions without feeling like you're interrupting. Together it makes a huge difference. I have audio processing and sensory problems and used to be so drained after a 40 minute zoom meeting. With this setup I can spend 4 hours a day pair programming and be appropriately tired but not exhausted. Your 3-4 and large meetings with executives screaming into their laptops from coworking spaces I have no solutions for however.
  • capitainenemo 2y ago
    I personally use a single over the ear [headphone with directional] mic because I want to hear everything around me normally (and myself). They are super cheap, and for jitsi/zoom/teams I don't normally need directional sound. It's also easier on my ears than earbuds. Esp if someone is too loud. I just tip it back a bit. *inserted [] for clarity
    • nuancebydefault 2y ago
      Over the ear mic?
      • capitainenemo 2y ago
        Sorry should have been clearer. One ear headphone with directional mic.
  • dgarrett 2y ago
    I know it's not exactly the point, but would you mind sharing what specific mic and headphones you went with for this? It can help to get a sense of what to look for to create a similar setup.
    • giraffe_lady 2y ago
      Yeti blue mic and phillips fidelio headphones. This was just the "standard package" that company recommended for new hires and we were given a one time setup stipend for what they cost at the time. I didn't shop around and haven't changed anything since, there may be better options now. I have the mic on an arm to cut down on bumps and typing transmitting through the desk, but I find it doesn't have to be right in my face. I have it above the monitor, out of view of the camera. YMMV depending on room echo, my walls are bookshelves which is pretty good as treatment.
  • shmel 2y ago
    Absolutely. I hoped that the pandemic made everyone realize that laptop mics suck. Even a cheap $20 headset is better than nothing.
    • rogerrogerr 2y ago
      MacBook mics are more than acceptable.
      • capitainenemo 2y ago
        I can very much tell when my boss is using his macbook mic vs headphone directional mic.
      • datadrivenangel 2y ago
        My MacBook Pro's Mic is as good as my entry-level dedicated microphone.
      • delecti 2y ago
        The benefit of a headset is not solely the improved microphone, it's also that the headphones mean your microphone is only picking up your speech, and not your meeting's output audio. If you are using both your laptop's microphone and speakers, then Teams/Zoom has to decide whether to play audio to you, or pick up audio from you. If you're talking at the same time as someone else, the audio quality for everyone in the meeting suffers.
        • avidiax 2y ago
          Modern systems don't work in a half-duplex mode like this. All laptop speaker/mic combos use AEC[1], where they can both playout and pickup at the same time. There is actually 2 layers of this in many systems, one provided by your device, and a 2nd layer provided in software by Zoom/Teams/Meet etc. What can happen is that the meeting audio is a mixture of the top-N loudest participants. N+1 people talking will conflict badly. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_suppression_and_cancellation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_suppression_and_cancellat...
  • Ductapemaster 2y ago
    I optimized for this style setup about a year into the pandemic, but using a Beyerdynamic MX300 wired gaming headset. The headset is closed-back, so to get voice feedback ("sidetone") I use an inexpensive Behringer XENYX USB302 mixer. It allows for adjusting the mic/audio mix going to my headphones, and also is a USB audio interface. This setup is as minimal as I was able to get it: no big booms on my desk to move around, microphones blocking my video, etc. Yeah, I look like a pilot on calls, but the audio quality is amazing. Also, the mic being close to me blocks background noise, and isolates it from my desk. Sometimes my colleagues with podcaster-style mics have issues with mechanical transmission from their desk setups, while I have none. People often comment — even to this day — about my audio quality. I talk to people all day, being in sales, and it makes a huge difference in my presence and professionalism. Absolutely worth every penny I spent. As a side note, I also use my iPhone as my webcam (continuity cam I think it's called) along with a couple Logitech lights on my monitor, and the overall quality of my digital presence often blows people away.
    • dghlsakjg 2y ago
      It surprises me how many people in sales, marketing and other external facing roles don't optimize their AV setup. Honestly I'm sort of surprised that there isn't training about this given how much sales training people go through. Presentation is HUGE. A good mic, a proper camera, and even just minor consideration for lighting make anyone so much more credible, and pleasant to talk to.
      • Ductapemaster 2y ago
        It really does surprise me too. Myself and my team are all technical sales folks with engineering backgrounds, and we naturally optimize for this sort of thing — all of us have some form of “advanced” setup that’s been informed by each other’s investment. On the other side, NONE of our account reps have anything remotely close. I can think of one or two times in the past few years when someone asked me about what tech I use. My company even has a home office budget benefit meant for exactly this sort of thing!
      • type0 2y ago
  • drdaeman 2y ago
    > And if both parties are using this setup, it greatly reduces the "only one person can speak at a time" feeling, allowing you to use more natural vocal interactions without feeling like you're interrupting. How does it work? Asking, because I always have this issue in 3+ person calls, where I'm frequently starting to talk just about when someone else does, ending up in those awkward "oh sorry you go please" moments. That makes me prefer to not say anything at all unless explicitly talked to. I always assumed that my issue is that I'm just a slow-thinking dumbass who can't get the cues in time (which is true, because it happens in face-to-face in-person conversations as well, just less frequently), but maybe it's a technical issue contributing to it?
    • MarioMan 2y ago
      That's a latency issue, and there's no real fix for that. The parent commenter, I believe, is talking about the problem where people use speakers and active noise cancellation, which makes it impractical to speak and be heard at the same time; the noise cancellation will ruin the speaker-user's mic audio while it has to cancel out another speaker. Headphones, worn by all parties, resolves this issue.
    • giraffe_lady 2y ago
      I might be wrong on some of this because I'm not that knowledgeable about the mechanics of it. But I think video conferencing software is built around the assumption that people are using their speakers and so the output is also picked up by the mic. So some of it is increased latency caused by filtering that out. And then it keeps people basically muted until it determines they're trying to speak, and there's a delay with it toggling. If you're using a mic and headphones at all though, there are settings that cut a lot of that out. They're usually kind of inscrutable like in zoom IIRC it's called "audio for musicians" or something like that. If both people are using headphones and have those settings on, it removes most of that "switching talker" latency. As you add more people it's harder and harder to get everyone configured correctly, which is why having company buy-in and policy is important. Sheer network latency comes into play too, but most people working from home probably have acceptable connections.
  • zten 2y ago
    This is tricky to do correctly if you don't want to look like one of three things: 1. Podcast bro / Twitch streamer (giant mic inches from face) 2. Gamer (headphones with or without a headset mic) 3. Call center employee (open back mono headset with mic) Turning off video is obviously the fastest fix to this. But assuming you don't want to do that... You'll find a lot of people hate wearing headphones since it messes up their hairstyle or just looks distracting or some other sensory issue with having something clamped to your head. Earbuds work better for them; as long as the mic can't hear other speakers, the annoyance of half-duplex audio is eliminated. The mic problem is harder if you don't want something obvious in frame. Lav mics work if you know how/where to attach one and to minimize clothing movement noise. Other options will require some level of room treatment if the mic isn't close to the speaker's mouth.
    • giraffe_lady 2y ago
      I suspect there are fashion/social signaling type reasons why streamers and podcasters put the mic visibly in frame. I found it wasn't difficult at all to get it out of the camera view with a minor but acceptable quality loss and no echo. My walls are mostly bookshelves which helps but is not exceptional.
      • siliconpotato 2y ago
        you probably have a condenser mic. dynamic mics should be 1-2 inches away from your audio source (think of a handheld mic)
  • J_Shelby_J 2y ago
    I’ve done a deep dive into this and have a setup I’m fairly happy with. It doesn’t sound as good as a “podcast” mic, but it’s also not obnoxious and in your face. While sounding worlds better than apple or gaming headsets. I detail in this thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/why-is-professional-audio-in-the-wfh-age-so-difficult.46268/page-2 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/w... It’s a wired headset with a condenser mic I feed into a daw with real-time compressor and eq. No software required or processing done on the computer. The only thing I’m missing is a wireless headset with audio in and out that can be routed to the DAW. Wireless headsets connect to the computer via usb which is a shame. All of my friends use steelseries and it sucks because I constantly have to ride their volume levels because the boom arm moves out the ideal position and they don’t have a leveler to do deal with it.
  • carlmr 2y ago
    >Allocate $300 per person to get everyone a podcaster mic and a pair of open backed headphones to plug into it as a monitor How's your experience with this regarding soundproofing the room. Is normal noise filtering fine? I assume you have the mic on a boom with a pop filter.
• candiddevmike 2y ago
  I miss remote work when we didn't have to go on video all the time. Seeing myself/other people in a video chat is exhausting, and the non-verbal cues are often delayed so they lose meaning entirely. Just give me low latency voice again, please.
  • cloudking 2y ago
    Our team culture defaults to video off for most recurring calls, it's more relaxing and less exhausting. When there's something really important to discuss, or an exec/client meeting we'll turn on video.
    • rqtwteye 2y ago
      Same here. The focus is usually on a document. I find video pretty distracting.
    • red-iron-pine 2y ago
      been remote since 2015 and outside of intimate meetings with small groups of people, and/or introductions, pretty much everywhere has been 100% no camera. part of it was working for F500 multinationals, where the PM is in Mexico City, technical staff are in Chile, and engineering is in Canada and California. Just audio works fine, but 10 people with cameras and things get laggy...
  • nuancebydefault 2y ago
    At my previous job during pandemic we usually communicated audio only. At my current job we most of the time use video as well. It is a big big improvement. Just a few days ago we had to have an audio-only call with a supplier, who said such was their policy. It was super annoying not being able to see them. It is much harder to get cues about for example how certain they are when saying something.
    • lathiat 2y ago
      I have to agree with this, I find no video much more exhausting and difficult to follow. I do have quite a few people that are non native English speakers that though not really difficult to understand, have great english and don't have very thick accents, does still up the difficulty slightly. Most of them also don't have the greatest audio setups (but not the worst, often plugin headsets with the dangly mics). I love the video, lack of it drives me nuts.
• nonameiguess 2y ago
  Interesting to me are the inverse issues my hard of hearing wife has with in-person work. She rarely gets anything out of meetings because the relative chaos and people speaking over each other means she can't hear any of it. No technology yet provides real-time transcription for reality. The politics of interpersonal relations makes everyone think you're stuck up, shy, unconfident, or all of these if you don't often speak up yourself. The common practice of looking over someone's shoulder for co-working doesn't work well when the other person relies upon reading your lips to understand you. All of the mythical serendipitous chance interactions that happen around a water cooler don't involve you if you can't hear anyone and don't take part in water cooler chat.
  • travisjungroth 2y ago
    > No technology yet provides real-time transcription for reality. A deaf dancer friend uses an app, I think from Google. We’re often in discussion/teaching circles in dance classes. Seems to work well. “Real time” is relative though. Conversation latency matters in roughly the tens of milliseconds and it’s certainly not near that fast. The group has to be attuned to having a turn for her to speak. She’ll pretty often come in at the same time as someone else, missing those subtle sounds of someone else about to talk. The emergent rule is “tie goes to her”. This all works well in the mindful scene of Berkeley experimental dance workshops. Maybe she’d get steamrolled in a competitive finance office or something.
    • wiglaf1979 2y ago
      Can you please get that app's name? It sounds like something that would immensley help me. I'm hard of hearing and something like this would be amazing to have handy when I can't wear my hearing aids in a specific situation. I would really appreciate this.
      • softjobs 2y ago
        https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.accessibility.soundamplifier https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and... perhaps?
• deleted 2y ago
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• bentcorner 2y ago
  Re #1, many video conferencing apps have in-app captions and I really appreciate turning these on. Sometimes I can't understand the speaker and captions save me. Sometimes I space out and captions allow me to "rewind" conversations so I can answer an unexpected question. Even if your video conferencing apps doesn't have captions, your OS might (Mac does, for example). Not as good as one in the conferencing software (which can label speakers), but it's better than nothing. This feature also helps if you join a meeting and don't have your audio set up right.
  • tsimionescu 2y ago
    In my experience, these captions only work for native speakers (of a language that happens to be supported) with "standard" accents. With other accents and/or non-native speakers, they break down pretty badly. Combine that with some amount of bilingual dialog and some technical terms and internal tech names, and it can get quite mystifying.
  • adamhartenz 2y ago
    Not so good if your flavour of neurodivergence is dyslexia, which often pairs with ADHD.
    • creativenolo 2y ago
      Valid point. But dyslexia doesn’t exclusively mean cant read well/quickly.
• aaron695 2y ago
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• deleted 2y ago
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• throwaway2037 2y ago
  > requires everyone to be explicit in their communication This is a charitable take. In reality, worse communicators are just even more worse on video chat, compared to in person chat.