5 ms·

“Is it really an abuse? Oh no, he used meal credits to buy toothpaste and tea instead of food” Yes. This is called fraud. Even if you feel mega corp X is bad,

“Is it really an abuse? Oh no, he used meal credits to buy toothpaste and tea instead of food” Yes. This is called fraud. Even if you feel mega corp X is bad, defrauding mega corp X is… also bad.

Joker_vD 2y ago
In what way the mega corp X is defrauded here, exactly? The sibling comment explains that arguably the IRS can be considered defrauded in this case, but the mega corp itself?
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  How is it not? There was permission to take and use company money for X purposes, employees took and used money for Y purposes. It is no different than using my company expense card to book a family trip to Hawaii.
consteval 2y ago
So then it must be a better outcome if you buy the maximum allowed amount of food, 70 dollars, and then throw it away? Better yet, buy that food, attempt to pawn it off, and then buy toothpaste. To me, that feels like a much worse outcome, not a better one. I think this demonstrates you need some leniency in these things. Because pettiness breeds pettiness.
- tzs 2y ago
  How about using it each day for the food that you actually eat that day? That's generally the point of meal allowances.
  - consteval 2y ago
    I'm not speaking to the point - I'm speaking to right and wrong. If it's wrong to use it on a tube of toothpaste because that's stealing, then it must surely be right to instead buy the maximum food and throw it away. Therefore, people should do that. If that sounds wrong to you, then the initial assumption might not be correct. Maybe it's not so bad to buy the tube of toothpaste. Constraining yourself to extremely hard and fast rules seems like a good idea on the surface. But it's all about incentives. I can easily make the company bleed much more money while being within their rules. So why even bother? A touch of leniency and common sense goes a long way.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      >If it's wrong to use it on a tube of toothpaste because that's stealing, then it must surely be right to instead buy the maximum food and throw it away. That makes no sense, One does not imply the other I have a business card with a limit of $5k for buying work materials. I might get forgiveness if the materials ended up being wasted. That doesn't mean it acceptable to use my business card to go to Disneyland, or that it is "Right" to use it for wasteful purchases. Zero sympathy for thieves
      - consteval 2y ago
        People's supposed issue, and Meta's, is that this was not spent on food. We can fix that. > Zero sympathy for thieves I often find that those who process information in such absolute ways are typically simple-minded. I can come up with infinite examples where thievery is not only excused, but the most moral choice. There are much better ways Meta should have gone through this. And, ultimately, I put the blame on them for coming up with an exploitable and naive policy.
        s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Theft is a clear line and I wouldnt want to employ someone one who didnt respect. I dont see how Meta has any moral obligation to prevent exploit. They should all have more such policies and monitor them to better weed out thieves. >I can come up with infinite examples where thievery is not only excused, but the most moral choice. Can you explain the moral justification for someone with a 400k salary to steal from their employer?
        consteval 2y ago
        > Theft is a clear line Right, and clear lines are reactionary and emotional, in my opinion. > I dont see how Meta has any moral obligation to prevent exploit They don't, companies have no moral obligations to do anything because it's impossible for them to have morals, because they aren't people. Which is why I never give companies the benefit of the doubt - that's reserved for entities capable of morality, in my mind. > Can you explain the moral justification for someone with a 400k salary to steal from their employer Sure. There's a young boy dying of a rare illness. The employee cannot make or buy the drug, but he knows a company has access to it. They refuse to give it up. So he steals the drug, saving the young boys life. Saving a life is more important than keeping the drug, therefore the situation is moral. Or imagine a company is evil in some way, and theft might prevent them from doing something evil. Again, moral. This is also the rationale behind why killing is sometimes moral. If I'm about to get killed and I defend myself, I therefore killed to prevent something evil happening. If a bunch of members of the Nazi party stole and fled the country, we wouldn't have had a holocaust. If Oppenheimer stole the secrets to the atomic bomb, hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese civilians wouldn't have been killed. If someone stole the guns from the Columbian killers, that tragedy would've never happened. I'm not saying that theft is morally justified in this particular circumstance. What I am saying is that generally it could be. And Meta handled this in a piss poor way that hurts them much more than the employees. Really, I'm looking out for Meta. So, you're welcome Mr. Zuckerburg.
- cityofdelusion 2y ago
  That’s just something bad for another reason. Fraud and wanton waste are both immoral.

Joker_vD 2y ago

In what way the mega corp X is defrauded here, exactly? The sibling comment explains that arguably the IRS can be considered defrauded in this case, but the mega corp itself?

s1artibartfast 2y ago
How is it not? There was permission to take and use company money for X purposes, employees took and used money for Y purposes. It is no different than using my company expense card to book a family trip to Hawaii.

consteval 2y ago

So then it must be a better outcome if you buy the maximum allowed amount of food, 70 dollars, and then throw it away? Better yet, buy that food, attempt to pawn it off, and then buy toothpaste. To me, that feels like a much worse outcome, not a better one. I think this demonstrates you need some leniency in these things. Because pettiness breeds pettiness.

tzs 2y ago
How about using it each day for the food that you actually eat that day? That's generally the point of meal allowances.
- consteval 2y ago
  I'm not speaking to the point - I'm speaking to right and wrong. If it's wrong to use it on a tube of toothpaste because that's stealing, then it must surely be right to instead buy the maximum food and throw it away. Therefore, people should do that. If that sounds wrong to you, then the initial assumption might not be correct. Maybe it's not so bad to buy the tube of toothpaste. Constraining yourself to extremely hard and fast rules seems like a good idea on the surface. But it's all about incentives. I can easily make the company bleed much more money while being within their rules. So why even bother? A touch of leniency and common sense goes a long way.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    >If it's wrong to use it on a tube of toothpaste because that's stealing, then it must surely be right to instead buy the maximum food and throw it away. That makes no sense, One does not imply the other I have a business card with a limit of $5k for buying work materials. I might get forgiveness if the materials ended up being wasted. That doesn't mean it acceptable to use my business card to go to Disneyland, or that it is "Right" to use it for wasteful purchases. Zero sympathy for thieves
    - consteval 2y ago
      People's supposed issue, and Meta's, is that this was not spent on food. We can fix that. > Zero sympathy for thieves I often find that those who process information in such absolute ways are typically simple-minded. I can come up with infinite examples where thievery is not only excused, but the most moral choice. There are much better ways Meta should have gone through this. And, ultimately, I put the blame on them for coming up with an exploitable and naive policy.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Theft is a clear line and I wouldnt want to employ someone one who didnt respect. I dont see how Meta has any moral obligation to prevent exploit. They should all have more such policies and monitor them to better weed out thieves. >I can come up with infinite examples where thievery is not only excused, but the most moral choice. Can you explain the moral justification for someone with a 400k salary to steal from their employer?
        consteval 2y ago
        > Theft is a clear line Right, and clear lines are reactionary and emotional, in my opinion. > I dont see how Meta has any moral obligation to prevent exploit They don't, companies have no moral obligations to do anything because it's impossible for them to have morals, because they aren't people. Which is why I never give companies the benefit of the doubt - that's reserved for entities capable of morality, in my mind. > Can you explain the moral justification for someone with a 400k salary to steal from their employer Sure. There's a young boy dying of a rare illness. The employee cannot make or buy the drug, but he knows a company has access to it. They refuse to give it up. So he steals the drug, saving the young boys life. Saving a life is more important than keeping the drug, therefore the situation is moral. Or imagine a company is evil in some way, and theft might prevent them from doing something evil. Again, moral. This is also the rationale behind why killing is sometimes moral. If I'm about to get killed and I defend myself, I therefore killed to prevent something evil happening. If a bunch of members of the Nazi party stole and fled the country, we wouldn't have had a holocaust. If Oppenheimer stole the secrets to the atomic bomb, hundreds of thousands of innocent Japanese civilians wouldn't have been killed. If someone stole the guns from the Columbian killers, that tragedy would've never happened. I'm not saying that theft is morally justified in this particular circumstance. What I am saying is that generally it could be. And Meta handled this in a piss poor way that hurts them much more than the employees. Really, I'm looking out for Meta. So, you're welcome Mr. Zuckerburg.
cityofdelusion 2y ago
That’s just something bad for another reason. Fraud and wanton waste are both immoral.