5 ms·

>For whatever reason The reason is that you won't bother to pronounce Vyacheslav so Russians have to use a short version of their name.

gambiting 2y ago
No, they don't have to - they are chosing to. To pretend otherwise is to say they don't have agency in this, which they do.
- protomolecule 2y ago
  Even if somebody puts a gun to your head and orders you to change your name, you'd still have a choice and it would be your decision what to do. That's not much of an argument though.
  - gambiting 2y ago
    No one put a gun to his head though. Discomfort of English speakers isn't enough reason to not use your real name if that's your preference. Again, speaking from experience.
    - PaulHoule 2y ago
      Many Chinese (speaking) students in the US pick an English language name like “William” or “Wendy” because they know people they meet will struggle with a name which could be several short words with unfamiliar vowels and consonants and tone that matters.
      - gambiting 2y ago
        Of course - and I support their choice. People struggle with my name every day and I could change it to make it easier for English speakers - but I don't think that's quite the same as being "forced" to change it.
      - s1artibartfast 2y ago
        Sure, but do you refuse to use the names those people give? This takes away their agency. It is their call, not yours.
      - pavel_lishin 2y ago
        It can also be annoying to run the 15-minute gauntlet of "but how do you really pronounce it", and you end up having to play dialect coach. Going by an easy-to-pronounce name is much less aggravating.
    - protomolecule 2y ago
      People would want to avoid awkward situation and talk to you (or about you) less.
      - gambiting 2y ago
        That's not quite the same as having a gun to your head. Again, I have a slavic name that's extremely difficult to English speakers and I live in the UK - no one is forcing me to change it. I understand some people chose to change their name so it's "easier" for English speakers - and I respect that choice. But let's not pretend that Mr Turyshev was "forced" to change his name - he wasn't.
        protomolecule 2y ago
        Nobody said that it's the same, but the logic of the argument is the same.
rendall 2y ago
I won't bother? But you don't know me? Did you mean that English speakers don't pronounce Russian names the way Russians do? Ask your local Russian to pronounce rural Worcestershire the way that English speakers do. Your typical Russian speaker cannot. Is it that they aren't "bothering"? The idea is absurd. Let people approximate foreign names in their own tongue. Or, if the way that they naturally pronounce something is truly atrocious, give them a name that is easier to pronounce. Or watch this fellow give foreign pronunciation his best shot: https://youtu.be/fKGoVefhtMQ https://youtu.be/fKGoVefhtMQ Absurd, right?
- protomolecule 2y ago
  Okay, that was about as rude on my part as ordering me to stop was on yours. My apologies. But the point is that most people won't bother to google the pronunciation, listen to it and make an effort to repeat close enough. By the way, Dr. Turyshev's name is the easy part, the surname is the real challenge)
  - rendall 2y ago
    Russians when speaking Russian have no obligation to pronounce my name the way that I do, given that it apparently has sounds that are not in Russian. I don't think people have that obligation when the name has foreign sounds in it whatever language they're speaking.
    - protomolecule 2y ago
      Where did the word 'obligation' appear from?
      - rendall 2y ago
        Perhaps you did not realize that asserting "It's Vyacheslav" and complaining that people do not "bother" to google "proper pronunciation" and "practice" until "good enough" strongly implies obligation? If not, it does. Disagree or not, let's agree to let this go. Feel free to have the last word. I will read it carefully.

gambiting 2y ago

No, they don't have to - they are chosing to. To pretend otherwise is to say they don't have agency in this, which they do.

protomolecule 2y ago
Even if somebody puts a gun to your head and orders you to change your name, you'd still have a choice and it would be your decision what to do. That's not much of an argument though.
- gambiting 2y ago
  No one put a gun to his head though. Discomfort of English speakers isn't enough reason to not use your real name if that's your preference. Again, speaking from experience.
  - PaulHoule 2y ago
    Many Chinese (speaking) students in the US pick an English language name like “William” or “Wendy” because they know people they meet will struggle with a name which could be several short words with unfamiliar vowels and consonants and tone that matters.
    - gambiting 2y ago
      Of course - and I support their choice. People struggle with my name every day and I could change it to make it easier for English speakers - but I don't think that's quite the same as being "forced" to change it.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      Sure, but do you refuse to use the names those people give? This takes away their agency. It is their call, not yours.
    - pavel_lishin 2y ago
      It can also be annoying to run the 15-minute gauntlet of "but how do you really pronounce it", and you end up having to play dialect coach. Going by an easy-to-pronounce name is much less aggravating.
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    People would want to avoid awkward situation and talk to you (or about you) less.
    - gambiting 2y ago
      That's not quite the same as having a gun to your head. Again, I have a slavic name that's extremely difficult to English speakers and I live in the UK - no one is forcing me to change it. I understand some people chose to change their name so it's "easier" for English speakers - and I respect that choice. But let's not pretend that Mr Turyshev was "forced" to change his name - he wasn't.
      - protomolecule 2y ago
        Nobody said that it's the same, but the logic of the argument is the same.

rendall 2y ago

I won't bother? But you don't know me? Did you mean that English speakers don't pronounce Russian names the way Russians do? Ask your local Russian to pronounce rural Worcestershire the way that English speakers do. Your typical Russian speaker cannot. Is it that they aren't "bothering"? The idea is absurd. Let people approximate foreign names in their own tongue. Or, if the way that they naturally pronounce something is truly atrocious, give them a name that is easier to pronounce. Or watch this fellow give foreign pronunciation his best shot: https://youtu.be/fKGoVefhtMQ https://youtu.be/fKGoVefhtMQ Absurd, right?

protomolecule 2y ago
Okay, that was about as rude on my part as ordering me to stop was on yours. My apologies. But the point is that most people won't bother to google the pronunciation, listen to it and make an effort to repeat close enough. By the way, Dr. Turyshev's name is the easy part, the surname is the real challenge)
- rendall 2y ago
  Russians when speaking Russian have no obligation to pronounce my name the way that I do, given that it apparently has sounds that are not in Russian. I don't think people have that obligation when the name has foreign sounds in it whatever language they're speaking.
  - protomolecule 2y ago
    Where did the word 'obligation' appear from?
    - rendall 2y ago
      Perhaps you did not realize that asserting "It's Vyacheslav" and complaining that people do not "bother" to google "proper pronunciation" and "practice" until "good enough" strongly implies obligation? If not, it does. Disagree or not, let's agree to let this go. Feel free to have the last word. I will read it carefully.