5 ms·

X isn't important enough to feel the full force of EU regulation

45 points by belter 2y ago

dikaio 2y ago
yes X wouldn’t want the “full force of EU” regulation. Ok.
- Hugsun 2y ago
  Certainly. Elon seems to be willing to go to extreme lengths to avoid regulation.
  - BerislavLopac 2y ago
    Including trying to colonize Mars.
    - alnwlsn 2y ago
      Not sure why people keep making this argument. If I'm obscenely rich and don't want to follow the rules, it's at least an order of magnitude cheaper and easier to have something on earth than mars. Buy a country or two, or set up a floating city in international waters. The challenges involved in each are peanuts compared to somewhere which has no breathable air. Mars is cooler though, I'll give you that one.
      - malermeister 2y ago
        If you're somewhere with no breathable air, and control the access to Oxygen, everyone else who was dumb enough to sign up to this trip is now under your complete control. That's what it's about.
        caeril 2y ago
        It will always be infinitely amusing that Musk has gone from a walking-on-water Nerd Jesus to a mustache-twirling Bond Villain on this site in the course of a year.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        Eh, the cracks started showing a bit back in 2018 when he baselessly defamed a rescue worker as a pedophile. The slide's longer than a year. I'm still a huge SpaceX fan, despite it all.
        Hugsun 2y ago
        His behavior, especially recent ones, has soured my view of all of his endeavors. I'm saddened by that fact.
  - dikaio 2y ago
    More like, avoid extreme legislation by extreme inept politicians.
bradley13 2y ago
I don't see this as embarrassing. It's about businesses reaching customers. That's not what X is used for. I read news, I read opinions, I read governmental announcements, and I follow the discussions of all of these.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  It’s absolutely what Twitter used to be for (and their main revenue stream). And the other direction - lighting a brand on fire on Twitter used to be one of the few remaining ways to get an actual human with decision making powers involved.
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    The Town Square is really the penalty box, mission achieved. Rich Guy buys site where Not Rich Guys can make problems for those like him. Runs it to the ground, proverbially. Hm.
  - ukouldalvays 2y ago
    You could always comment on the CEO of the respective company's linked profile. That gets their attention much faster.
- lapcat 2y ago
  > That's not what X is used for. I... X/Twitter is/was used for many different things. Why are you speaking for an entire service? As a business owner, I did use Twitter to reach customers.
  - input_sh 2y ago
    Reaching customers != conducting business. You can't sell things via Twitter like you can via other companies classified as gatekeepers.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      Marketers everywhere will be sad to know they’re just doing a hobby, not real business.
tontonius 2y ago
Honestly, this seems like a win for X but the article tries (somewhat hard) to frame it as a loss. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the author's personal opinion of Mr Musk.
- maeil 2y ago
  It's definitely a win for X! They'll be happy. It's also something nice to show all the cynics that pop up here every time an SV giant receives an EU fine, claiming it's purely an extortion racket. It would've been trivial to designate X as a gatekeeper to make some cash, but this shows that that's not the core idea.
  - IMTDb 2y ago
    > It would've been trivial to designate X as a gatekeeper to make some cash The whole point of the article is that the sole reason why X is not "feeling the full force of the EU regulation" is that.... there is not enough cash to make so the EU does not bother. The very definition of an extortion market. I'd argue that X is far worse than other tech giants in promoting hate crime etc. But since the EU can't really grab a lot of money from it (turnover too low) they care less. As a European, I read the law as; it does not matter how much of a threat to democracy you are: the amount of money you make (and thus we amount we can fine) are the main factor that will determine if we go after you or not. Great.
    - shafyy 2y ago
      No, the Digital Market Act's goal is: "The DMA aims at ensuring a higher degree of competition in European digital markets by preventing large companies from abusing their market power and by allowing new players to enter the market" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act) It's not about regulating hate crime on those platforms. There are other regulations for this, but that has nothing to do with the DMA.
      - IMTDb 2y ago
rob74 2y ago
> Under its Digital Markets Act (DMA) the EU can designate gatekeepers when they achieve a certain annual turnover, provide a core platform service in at least three member states and serve [more] than 45 million monthly active end users. I wonder which of these three criteria Xitter doesn't meet? The second one is obviously met, and not sure about the annual turnover, but the third is the most interesting one, because most of its users are only consumers, i.e. not active. I wonder if with the recent forced login it could be argued that the former passive consumers are now also active users? But apparently, even if a platform meets all the criteria, it can still be let off the hook: "although X Ads meets the quantitative designation thresholds … this core platform service does not qualify as an important gateway". Congrats, Elon!
- lynx23 2y ago
  X is by far not as relevant in Europe then over there in the USA. Nobody in my private circle has a X account. Over here, its basically an echo chamber for journalists and other hate-crime-distriibutors.
  - FirmwareBurner 2y ago
    >Over here, its basically an echo chamber for journalists and other hate-crime-distriibutors Journalists having public echo chambers is good since then the public can see what they're talking about. You're not forced to follow them though, you cam just follow something else. And what's "hate crime" on X? Maybe you mean hate speech? Because if hating people would be a crime then I've committed several felonies today on my way to work. X is what you make of it. I'm in the EU and use it to keep up to speed on a lot of cybersecurity topics from indie researchers and never see any "hate crimes" or whatever you mean by that. If you're only using to browse hate crimes, maybe that says something about you in particular.
    - Y_Y 2y ago
      Presumably hate speech is a hate crime in the many jurisdictions where hate speech is criminalised.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Eumenes 2y ago
I can't really take the DMA seriously when its punishing Google's alleged play store monopoly when Apple gets exclusivity with its own app store. I'm sure there's some technical fluff fanboys will share but its an obvious dig at Google. I'm sure it has something to do with Apple using Ireland as a tax haven.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  Apple is currently fighting the EU over the DMA. https://techcrunch.com/2024/06/24/apples-app-store-breaches-eus-digital-markets-act/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/06/24/apples-app-store-breaches-... Pretty sure you’re mixing up US and EU cases, as your description sounds more like the https://apnews.com/article/google-epic-android-app-store-d635ff5b6a2c8b755faa14fe471b73e2 https://apnews.com/article/google-epic-android-app-store-d63... case.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  Additionally: Google (and the rest of big tech) used Ireland as a tax haven just like Apple: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/google-used-double-irish-to-shift-75-4bn-in-profits-out-of-ireland-1.4540519 https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/google-used-d... Apple has already been required to open the App Store up in the EU: https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu/#ios-app-eu https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu/#... (They did it as maliciously-compliant as possible, which is still being fought over and likely will be for a while.)
croisillon 2y ago
no wonder, even at the time when Twitter had real users, those were but a fraction of the general population
ChrisArchitect 2y ago
[dupe] More on official release: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41857503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41857503

45 points by belter 2y ago

dikaio 2y ago

yes X wouldn’t want the “full force of EU” regulation. Ok.

Hugsun 2y ago
Certainly. Elon seems to be willing to go to extreme lengths to avoid regulation.
- BerislavLopac 2y ago
  Including trying to colonize Mars.
  - alnwlsn 2y ago
    Not sure why people keep making this argument. If I'm obscenely rich and don't want to follow the rules, it's at least an order of magnitude cheaper and easier to have something on earth than mars. Buy a country or two, or set up a floating city in international waters. The challenges involved in each are peanuts compared to somewhere which has no breathable air. Mars is cooler though, I'll give you that one.
    - malermeister 2y ago
      If you're somewhere with no breathable air, and control the access to Oxygen, everyone else who was dumb enough to sign up to this trip is now under your complete control. That's what it's about.
      - caeril 2y ago
        It will always be infinitely amusing that Musk has gone from a walking-on-water Nerd Jesus to a mustache-twirling Bond Villain on this site in the course of a year.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        Eh, the cracks started showing a bit back in 2018 when he baselessly defamed a rescue worker as a pedophile. The slide's longer than a year. I'm still a huge SpaceX fan, despite it all.
        Hugsun 2y ago
        His behavior, especially recent ones, has soured my view of all of his endeavors. I'm saddened by that fact.
- dikaio 2y ago
  More like, avoid extreme legislation by extreme inept politicians.

bradley13 2y ago

I don't see this as embarrassing. It's about businesses reaching customers. That's not what X is used for. I read news, I read opinions, I read governmental announcements, and I follow the discussions of all of these.

ceejayoz 2y ago
It’s absolutely what Twitter used to be for (and their main revenue stream). And the other direction - lighting a brand on fire on Twitter used to be one of the few remaining ways to get an actual human with decision making powers involved.
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  The Town Square is really the penalty box, mission achieved. Rich Guy buys site where Not Rich Guys can make problems for those like him. Runs it to the ground, proverbially. Hm.
- ukouldalvays 2y ago
  You could always comment on the CEO of the respective company's linked profile. That gets their attention much faster.
lapcat 2y ago
> That's not what X is used for. I... X/Twitter is/was used for many different things. Why are you speaking for an entire service? As a business owner, I did use Twitter to reach customers.
- input_sh 2y ago
  Reaching customers != conducting business. You can't sell things via Twitter like you can via other companies classified as gatekeepers.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    Marketers everywhere will be sad to know they’re just doing a hobby, not real business.

tontonius 2y ago

Honestly, this seems like a win for X but the article tries (somewhat hard) to frame it as a loss. I'm sure it has nothing to do with the author's personal opinion of Mr Musk.

maeil 2y ago
It's definitely a win for X! They'll be happy. It's also something nice to show all the cynics that pop up here every time an SV giant receives an EU fine, claiming it's purely an extortion racket. It would've been trivial to designate X as a gatekeeper to make some cash, but this shows that that's not the core idea.
- IMTDb 2y ago
  > It would've been trivial to designate X as a gatekeeper to make some cash The whole point of the article is that the sole reason why X is not "feeling the full force of the EU regulation" is that.... there is not enough cash to make so the EU does not bother. The very definition of an extortion market. I'd argue that X is far worse than other tech giants in promoting hate crime etc. But since the EU can't really grab a lot of money from it (turnover too low) they care less. As a European, I read the law as; it does not matter how much of a threat to democracy you are: the amount of money you make (and thus we amount we can fine) are the main factor that will determine if we go after you or not. Great.
  - shafyy 2y ago
    No, the Digital Market Act's goal is: "The DMA aims at ensuring a higher degree of competition in European digital markets by preventing large companies from abusing their market power and by allowing new players to enter the market" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Markets_Act) It's not about regulating hate crime on those platforms. There are other regulations for this, but that has nothing to do with the DMA.
    - IMTDb 2y ago

rob74 2y ago

> Under its Digital Markets Act (DMA) the EU can designate gatekeepers when they achieve a certain annual turnover, provide a core platform service in at least three member states and serve [more] than 45 million monthly active end users. I wonder which of these three criteria Xitter doesn't meet? The second one is obviously met, and not sure about the annual turnover, but the third is the most interesting one, because most of its users are only consumers, i.e. not active. I wonder if with the recent forced login it could be argued that the former passive consumers are now also active users? But apparently, even if a platform meets all the criteria, it can still be let off the hook: "although X Ads meets the quantitative designation thresholds … this core platform service does not qualify as an important gateway". Congrats, Elon!

lynx23 2y ago
X is by far not as relevant in Europe then over there in the USA. Nobody in my private circle has a X account. Over here, its basically an echo chamber for journalists and other hate-crime-distriibutors.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
  >Over here, its basically an echo chamber for journalists and other hate-crime-distriibutors Journalists having public echo chambers is good since then the public can see what they're talking about. You're not forced to follow them though, you cam just follow something else. And what's "hate crime" on X? Maybe you mean hate speech? Because if hating people would be a crime then I've committed several felonies today on my way to work. X is what you make of it. I'm in the EU and use it to keep up to speed on a lot of cybersecurity topics from indie researchers and never see any "hate crimes" or whatever you mean by that. If you're only using to browse hate crimes, maybe that says something about you in particular.
  - Y_Y 2y ago
    Presumably hate speech is a hate crime in the many jurisdictions where hate speech is criminalised.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

Eumenes 2y ago

I can't really take the DMA seriously when its punishing Google's alleged play store monopoly when Apple gets exclusivity with its own app store. I'm sure there's some technical fluff fanboys will share but its an obvious dig at Google. I'm sure it has something to do with Apple using Ireland as a tax haven.

ceejayoz 2y ago
Apple is currently fighting the EU over the DMA. https://techcrunch.com/2024/06/24/apples-app-store-breaches-eus-digital-markets-act/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/06/24/apples-app-store-breaches-... Pretty sure you’re mixing up US and EU cases, as your description sounds more like the https://apnews.com/article/google-epic-android-app-store-d635ff5b6a2c8b755faa14fe471b73e2 https://apnews.com/article/google-epic-android-app-store-d63... case.
ceejayoz 2y ago
Additionally: Google (and the rest of big tech) used Ireland as a tax haven just like Apple: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/google-used-double-irish-to-shift-75-4bn-in-profits-out-of-ireland-1.4540519 https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/google-used-d... Apple has already been required to open the App Store up in the EU: https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu/#ios-app-eu https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu/#... (They did it as maliciously-compliant as possible, which is still being fought over and likely will be for a while.)

croisillon 2y ago

no wonder, even at the time when Twitter had real users, those were but a fraction of the general population

ChrisArchitect 2y ago

[dupe] More on official release: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41857503 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41857503