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Cloudflare is a fantastic service with an unmatched value proposition, but it's unfortunately slowly killing web privacy, with 1000s paper cuts. Another proble

Cloudflare is a fantastic service with an unmatched value proposition, but it's unfortunately slowly killing web privacy, with 1000s paper cuts. Another problem is "resist fingerprinting" prevents some canvas processing, and many websites like bluesky, linked in or substack uses canvas to handle image upload, so your images appear to be stripes of pixel. Then you have mobile apps that just don't run if you don't have a google account, like chatgpt's native app. I understand why people give up, trying to fight for your privacy is an uphill battle with no end in sight.

madeofpalk 2y ago
> Then you have mobile apps that just don't run if you don't have a google account, like chatgpt's native app. Is that true? At least on iOS you can log into the ChatGPT with same email/password as the website. I never use Google login for stuff and ChatGPT works fine for me.
- BiteCode_dev 2y ago
  See other comment.
KomoD 2y ago
> Then you have mobile apps that just don't run if you don't have a google account, like chatgpt's native app. That's not true, I use ChatGPT's app on my phone without logging into a Google account. You don't even need any kind of account at all to use it.
- BiteCode_dev 2y ago
  On Android at least, even if you don't need to log in to your google account when connecting to chatgpt, the app won't work if your phone isn't signed in into google play, which doesn't work if your phone isn't linked to a google account. An android phone asks you to link a google account when you use it for the first time. It takes a very dedicated user to refuse that, then to avoid logging in into the gmail, youtube or app store apps which will all also link your phone to your google account when you sign in. But I do actively avoid this, I use Aurora, F-droid, K9 and NewPipeX, so no link to google. But then no ChatGPT app. When I start it, I get hit with a logging page to the app store and it's game over.
  - appendix-rock 2y ago
    [dead]
  - acdha 2y ago
    So the requirement is to pass the phone’s system validation process rather than having a Google account. I don’t love that but I can understand why they don’t want to pay the bill for the otherwise ubiquitous bots, and it’s why it’s an Android-specific issue.
    - BiteCode_dev 2y ago
      You can make a very rational case for each privacy invasive technical decision ever made. In the end, the fact remain: no chatgpt app without giving up your privacy, to google none the less.
      - acdha 2y ago
        “Giving up your privacy” is a pretty sweeping claim – it sounds like you’re saying that Android inherently leaks private data to Google, which is broader than even Apple fans tend to say.
        michaelt 2y ago
        A person who was maximally distrustful of Google would assume they link your phone and your IP through the connection used to receive push notifications, and the wifi-network-visibility-to-location API, and the software update checker, and the DNS over HTTPS, and suchlike. As a US company, they could even be forced to do this in secret against their will, and lie about it. Of course as Google doesn't claim they do this, many people would consider it unreasonably fearful/cynical.
        acdha 2y ago
        Sure, but that says you shouldn’t have a phone, not that ChatGPT is forcing you to give up your privacy.
pjc50 2y ago
The privacy battle has to be at the legal layer. GDPR is far from perfect (bureaucratic and unclear with weak enforcement), but it's a step in the right direction. In an adversarial environment, especially with both AI scrapers and AI posters, websites have to be able to identify and ban persistent abusers. Which unfortunately implies having some kind of identification of everybody.
- BiteCode_dev 2y ago
  That's another problem, we want cheap easy solutions like tracking people, instead of more targetteed or systemic ones.
- nonameiguess 2y ago
  No, it's more than that. Cloudflare's bot protection has blocked me from sites where I have a paid account, paid for by my real checking account with my real name attached. Even when I am perfectly willing to give out my identity and be tracked, I still can't because I can't even get to the login page.
  - HappMacDonald 2y ago
    They block such visits because their pragma suspects that your visit is the account of a real human that was hacked by a bot.
- wbl 2y ago
  You notice that Analogue Devices puts their (incredibly useful) information up for free. That's because they make money other ways. Ad supported content farm Internet had a nice run but we will get on without it.
- Gormo 2y ago
  > The privacy battle has to be at the legal layer. I couldn't disagree more. The way to protect privacy is to make privacy the standard at the implementation layer, and to make it costly and difficult to breach it. Trying to rely on political institutions without the practical and technical incentives favoring privacy will inevitably result in the political institutions themselves becoming the main instrument that erodes privacy.

madeofpalk 2y ago

> Then you have mobile apps that just don't run if you don't have a google account, like chatgpt's native app. Is that true? At least on iOS you can log into the ChatGPT with same email/password as the website. I never use Google login for stuff and ChatGPT works fine for me.

BiteCode_dev 2y ago
See other comment.

KomoD 2y ago

> Then you have mobile apps that just don't run if you don't have a google account, like chatgpt's native app. That's not true, I use ChatGPT's app on my phone without logging into a Google account. You don't even need any kind of account at all to use it.

BiteCode_dev 2y ago
On Android at least, even if you don't need to log in to your google account when connecting to chatgpt, the app won't work if your phone isn't signed in into google play, which doesn't work if your phone isn't linked to a google account. An android phone asks you to link a google account when you use it for the first time. It takes a very dedicated user to refuse that, then to avoid logging in into the gmail, youtube or app store apps which will all also link your phone to your google account when you sign in. But I do actively avoid this, I use Aurora, F-droid, K9 and NewPipeX, so no link to google. But then no ChatGPT app. When I start it, I get hit with a logging page to the app store and it's game over.
- appendix-rock 2y ago
  [dead]
- acdha 2y ago
  So the requirement is to pass the phone’s system validation process rather than having a Google account. I don’t love that but I can understand why they don’t want to pay the bill for the otherwise ubiquitous bots, and it’s why it’s an Android-specific issue.
  - BiteCode_dev 2y ago
    You can make a very rational case for each privacy invasive technical decision ever made. In the end, the fact remain: no chatgpt app without giving up your privacy, to google none the less.
    - acdha 2y ago
      “Giving up your privacy” is a pretty sweeping claim – it sounds like you’re saying that Android inherently leaks private data to Google, which is broader than even Apple fans tend to say.
      - michaelt 2y ago
        A person who was maximally distrustful of Google would assume they link your phone and your IP through the connection used to receive push notifications, and the wifi-network-visibility-to-location API, and the software update checker, and the DNS over HTTPS, and suchlike. As a US company, they could even be forced to do this in secret against their will, and lie about it. Of course as Google doesn't claim they do this, many people would consider it unreasonably fearful/cynical.
        acdha 2y ago
        Sure, but that says you shouldn’t have a phone, not that ChatGPT is forcing you to give up your privacy.

pjc50 2y ago

The privacy battle has to be at the legal layer. GDPR is far from perfect (bureaucratic and unclear with weak enforcement), but it's a step in the right direction. In an adversarial environment, especially with both AI scrapers and AI posters, websites have to be able to identify and ban persistent abusers. Which unfortunately implies having some kind of identification of everybody.

BiteCode_dev 2y ago
That's another problem, we want cheap easy solutions like tracking people, instead of more targetteed or systemic ones.
nonameiguess 2y ago
No, it's more than that. Cloudflare's bot protection has blocked me from sites where I have a paid account, paid for by my real checking account with my real name attached. Even when I am perfectly willing to give out my identity and be tracked, I still can't because I can't even get to the login page.
- HappMacDonald 2y ago
  They block such visits because their pragma suspects that your visit is the account of a real human that was hacked by a bot.
wbl 2y ago
You notice that Analogue Devices puts their (incredibly useful) information up for free. That's because they make money other ways. Ad supported content farm Internet had a nice run but we will get on without it.
Gormo 2y ago
> The privacy battle has to be at the legal layer. I couldn't disagree more. The way to protect privacy is to make privacy the standard at the implementation layer, and to make it costly and difficult to breach it. Trying to rely on political institutions without the practical and technical incentives favoring privacy will inevitably result in the political institutions themselves becoming the main instrument that erodes privacy.