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We should stop defending an imperialist establishment which relies on the rampant exploitation of the global south and is committing genocide and calling it rul

by ngcazz 2y ago

We should stop defending an imperialist establishment which relies on the rampant exploitation of the global south and is committing genocide and calling it rules-based order. More like America rules. The containment rhetoric/logic is long past its use-by date - the US's pretense as guardians of a common moral high ground was shattered at the very latest with the Vietnam War, and in 2024 it is an absolute tragedy of a joke in poor taste. You gotta think this rules-based order is designed to drive anyone decent crazy. What else can happen when you hear pieces of shit like Blinken wax lyrical about the human rights of Palestinians while supercharging weapons deliveries to Israel, or the very existence of the UNSC veto which will guarantee outcomes that reinforce unforgivable and unforgettable mass crimes, beckoning awful consequences for the whole world.

itsoktocry 2y ago
>You gotta think this rules-based order is designed to drive anyone decent crazy. All complaints, no solutions. Typical. So who does have the moral high-ground around the globe? It's unbelievable to me how many people think it'd be all peace and harmony if the US disappeared. I can imagine much worse, just by reading a history book.
- saturn8601 2y ago
  I'd like to think that Pakistan would be on a better road if their democratically elected leader wasn't ousted by the US. Thats one example, there are many others. In terms of solutions, well looking at history of the US, the only time the people at the top ever gave any semblance of crumbs to everyone else was when they knew they were in deep trouble and were forced to part with whatever little they could give to calm the masses. Think of Medicare, Social Security etc. We saw it again with Obamacare. The country was in a rage so out came the bare minimum. Elimination of barbaric things like pre-existing conditions in exchange for guaranteed income for the insurance companies. Absolute breadcrumbs but it was something. We just need something like that on a worldwide level. Maybe China rising will finally put pressure on the US given that the EU never amounted to much more than being a US vassal state.
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  > It's unbelievable to me how many people think it'd be all peace and harmony if the US disappeared. You've misread the situation. I don't think it would be global peace and harmony if we stopped playing world police. I simply do not care. It's not our responsibility to take care of other countries while we have serious problems at home that are going ignored.
  - scottyah 2y ago
    Kissinger set out for a policy that prioritized stability, communication, and mutual understanding of each others' desires to live their own lives. If we do not "take care" of other countries (as in stop being world police, stop assisting in their problems like Clinton did with Ireland's Troubles, etc...) we would have their problems at our doorstep. Also, there is definitely a subset of Americans that cannot stand by living well when others aren't, just because they other people were born elsewhere. This applies on all levels: Country, State, County, City, Neighborhood, block, house, etc.
    - saturn8601 2y ago
      What are you smoking? Have you not seen the list of all the governments that have been "removed" by the US? Most recently Pakistan which was a year ago [1]:https://theintercept.com/2023/08/09/imran-khan-pakistan-cypher-ukraine-russia/ https://theintercept.com/2023/08/09/imran-khan-pakistan-cyph... [2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change#2010s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
    - ngcazz 2y ago
      You have to be joking
- mistermann 2y ago
  > It's unbelievable to me how many people think it'd be all peace and harmony if the US disappeared. I can imagine much worse, just by reading a history book. What is the relevance of this to the content of the comment you are replying to?
- csomar 2y ago
  That's like telling a woman with a beating husband that it's better to stay with him because the other men are worse.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    If you live in a world where it simply isn't possible for some reason for the woman to not have a husband at all, it makes perfect sense.
- BlueTemplar 2y ago
  While Pax Americana does have some benefits (but not for everyone), taking examples from history is worse than useless when nuclear weapons have completely changed war. China might be eyeing Siberia for all its space and resources, but unlike in the modern era, the chance that they will declare war on Russia is basically nil. It even predates nukes when you look how WW1 and WW2 had only losers (nothwithstanding those that didn't let war touch their territory, like USA). But I guess that we were too "dumb" to figure that out before nukes. And still are, Russia is getting an example of it in Ukraine right now... speaking of, what "rules" ? Russia just went and completely ignored the Budapest memorandum (while Ukraine is regretting deeply they didn't keep at least some nukes).

by ngcazz 2y ago

itsoktocry 2y ago

>You gotta think this rules-based order is designed to drive anyone decent crazy. All complaints, no solutions. Typical. So who does have the moral high-ground around the globe? It's unbelievable to me how many people think it'd be all peace and harmony if the US disappeared. I can imagine much worse, just by reading a history book.

saturn8601 2y ago
I'd like to think that Pakistan would be on a better road if their democratically elected leader wasn't ousted by the US. Thats one example, there are many others. In terms of solutions, well looking at history of the US, the only time the people at the top ever gave any semblance of crumbs to everyone else was when they knew they were in deep trouble and were forced to part with whatever little they could give to calm the masses. Think of Medicare, Social Security etc. We saw it again with Obamacare. The country was in a rage so out came the bare minimum. Elimination of barbaric things like pre-existing conditions in exchange for guaranteed income for the insurance companies. Absolute breadcrumbs but it was something. We just need something like that on a worldwide level. Maybe China rising will finally put pressure on the US given that the EU never amounted to much more than being a US vassal state.
bigstrat2003 2y ago
> It's unbelievable to me how many people think it'd be all peace and harmony if the US disappeared. You've misread the situation. I don't think it would be global peace and harmony if we stopped playing world police. I simply do not care. It's not our responsibility to take care of other countries while we have serious problems at home that are going ignored.
- scottyah 2y ago
  Kissinger set out for a policy that prioritized stability, communication, and mutual understanding of each others' desires to live their own lives. If we do not "take care" of other countries (as in stop being world police, stop assisting in their problems like Clinton did with Ireland's Troubles, etc...) we would have their problems at our doorstep. Also, there is definitely a subset of Americans that cannot stand by living well when others aren't, just because they other people were born elsewhere. This applies on all levels: Country, State, County, City, Neighborhood, block, house, etc.
  - saturn8601 2y ago
    What are you smoking? Have you not seen the list of all the governments that have been "removed" by the US? Most recently Pakistan which was a year ago [1]:https://theintercept.com/2023/08/09/imran-khan-pakistan-cypher-ukraine-russia/ https://theintercept.com/2023/08/09/imran-khan-pakistan-cyph... [2]:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change#2010s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...
  - ngcazz 2y ago
    You have to be joking
mistermann 2y ago
> It's unbelievable to me how many people think it'd be all peace and harmony if the US disappeared. I can imagine much worse, just by reading a history book. What is the relevance of this to the content of the comment you are replying to?
csomar 2y ago
That's like telling a woman with a beating husband that it's better to stay with him because the other men are worse.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  If you live in a world where it simply isn't possible for some reason for the woman to not have a husband at all, it makes perfect sense.
BlueTemplar 2y ago
While Pax Americana does have some benefits (but not for everyone), taking examples from history is worse than useless when nuclear weapons have completely changed war. China might be eyeing Siberia for all its space and resources, but unlike in the modern era, the chance that they will declare war on Russia is basically nil. It even predates nukes when you look how WW1 and WW2 had only losers (nothwithstanding those that didn't let war touch their territory, like USA). But I guess that we were too "dumb" to figure that out before nukes. And still are, Russia is getting an example of it in Ukraine right now... speaking of, what "rules" ? Russia just went and completely ignored the Budapest memorandum (while Ukraine is regretting deeply they didn't keep at least some nukes).