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Sounds like a great idea. In England, I've seen education get consistently more rigid and inflexible over the years. All about tests, tests and more tests. T

Sounds like a great idea. In England, I've seen education get consistently more rigid and inflexible over the years. All about tests, tests and more tests. Teachers leave the profession, children turn off. And as it consistently fails to produce better results, the answer is always to do more of what has failed. Bring something like this to England, please!

soperj 2y ago
Sounds like Bill Gates has gotten a hold of your school system as well.
- sixo 2y ago
  sounds like you have something to say but can't be bothered to say it
  - snozolli 2y ago
    I was curious, so I googled it. I'm guessing GP is talking about this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/06/29/bill-gates-spent-hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars-to-improve-teaching-new-report-says-it-was-a-bust/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/06/... The aim was to create teacher evaluation systems that depended on student standardized test scores and observations by “peer evaluators.” These systems, it was conjectured, could identify the teachers who were most effective in improving student academic performance. (it's not clear to me if this created any standardized tests for students, or just depended on existing ones) Sounds like it ran from 2009-2015ish. If Bill Gates is going to be brought up, then I guess George W. Bush should be, too, with No Child Left Behind. AFAIK that's what kicked off the trend of standardized testing for students in the U.S.
  - soperj 2y ago
    Gates Foundation put an outsized amount of money into getting support for Common Core, standardized testing and merit pay for teachers. - https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/got-dough-how-billionaires-rule-our-schools/ https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/got-dough-how-billio...
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- talideon 2y ago
  The world doesn't revolve around the US, you know...
illwrks 2y ago
Is this not the same as a gap year? I’m Irish but unfortunately never bothered with TY. I live in the UK now so I’ve a limited understanding of TY and the ‘Gap year’.
- MattPalmer1086 2y ago
  The article says it is like a gap year, but during secondary school. Clearly not the same as taking time off before university when you are already an adult though. Participation in some activities is required, so it's a bit more structured - and I don't think you can take off on your own to travel the world!
  - talideon 2y ago
    It's nothing like a gap year. It's just less academically focused.
- Macha 2y ago
  A gap year is normally between the end of secondary school and starting college (so 18-20 or so). TY is between junior cycle (junior cert, or inter cert if you're older) and senior cycle (leaving cert). So 14-16 year olds (who couldn't legally take a gap year)
- aussiegreenie 2y ago
  The Gap Year is a year-long deferral from university or college. Sometimes, it occurs directly after finishing High School, and other times, it occurs in the middle of your course. Many countries allow young people (under 30) to live and work in-country under a Working Holiday visa. Both are effectively Young People travelling (aka backpacking).
- piltdownman 2y ago
  Gap Year is taken between 2nd and 3rd level education at the persons own impetus - generally used to backpack around SEA and/or work for a bit in the 'real world'. Transition Year is the 4th year of 2nd Level in Ireland - the conclusion of the 'Junior Cycle' of secondary school, culminating with the 10-14 Subject 'Junior Certificate' exam at the end of 3rd year. It is a regular year in terms of school attendance, but rather than academic modules structure against a strict curriculum, students tend to do a mix of practical and theoretical skills. Things like intro to psychology, philosophy, an esoteric language or other college accession style intro classes are popular. Photography/Film Making, Cooking, Self-Defense/Martial Arts classes are all popular on the practical side. Most of the religious schools (i.e. about 80% of all schools) tend to have a charity component as well - seeing TY students out collecting for Irish Cancer Society or packing bags in a supermarket to fund a local Hospice is pretty standard.
wiredfool 2y ago
The other 5 years of schooling at that level is all about the tests.
timthorn 2y ago
> it consistently fails to produce better results The performance of the English education system has improved markedly over the past couple of decades. At least, as measured by tests!
- dijksterhuis 2y ago
  my physics A level teacher did something really interesting with us. we spent a whole class looking at an old O Level question from an exam. all of us, including the boffins in the class, were completely stumped by it. he explained it to us at the end, but it did solidify an appreciation in me that, at least 20ish years ago, we definitely had it easier than folks before us.
SoftTalker 2y ago
> tests, tests and more tests Same in the USA. The old student question "will this be on the test?" is now also asked by teachers and administrators. If the answer is "no" they skip it.
- spywaregorilla 2y ago
  That's not unreasonable if you have good tests that hit the right elements. My experience about 10 years ago with the AP exams were very positive. The tests were good, and even though the classes were taught to the test, they were some of the best classes I ever took.
  - bobthepanda 2y ago
    the problem, at least in the US, is that the tests and standards have tightened up without necessarily giving the teachers better training or better productivity tools to teach them, and now their job evaluations also depend on it, so now everybody is optimizing for the test. Usually to the detriment of subjects not on standardized testing like the arts or physical education or anything resembling a break time. Throw in the fact that in much of the country, teachers have to do things like pull second jobs to get by and beg parents for basic supplies like scissors and paper towels, and it's no wonder everything is falling apart.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - MattPalmer1086 2y ago
    Education should be about more than just passing standardised tests. I always remember my history teacher taking an entire term on the battles of the second world war. He brought in videos, old shell casings, all kinds of stuff. Everyone was into it, even kids who normally wouldn't pay attention. At the end of term he apologised to us, since none of that would be in the test, and now we would have to work harder to get through the exam material. We didn't mind; he had hooked us on the subject. But that is now rare. Increasingly teachers just teach to the test. And the number of tests the kids have to take keeps rising. The best you can say about it is everyone gets the same tedious and stressful introduction to everything, which only proves their ability to remember lots of stuff under time pressure.

soperj 2y ago

Sounds like Bill Gates has gotten a hold of your school system as well.

sixo 2y ago
sounds like you have something to say but can't be bothered to say it
- snozolli 2y ago
  I was curious, so I googled it. I'm guessing GP is talking about this: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/06/29/bill-gates-spent-hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars-to-improve-teaching-new-report-says-it-was-a-bust/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2018/06/... The aim was to create teacher evaluation systems that depended on student standardized test scores and observations by “peer evaluators.” These systems, it was conjectured, could identify the teachers who were most effective in improving student academic performance. (it's not clear to me if this created any standardized tests for students, or just depended on existing ones) Sounds like it ran from 2009-2015ish. If Bill Gates is going to be brought up, then I guess George W. Bush should be, too, with No Child Left Behind. AFAIK that's what kicked off the trend of standardized testing for students in the U.S.
- soperj 2y ago
  Gates Foundation put an outsized amount of money into getting support for Common Core, standardized testing and merit pay for teachers. - https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/got-dough-how-billionaires-rule-our-schools/ https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/got-dough-how-billio...
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
talideon 2y ago
The world doesn't revolve around the US, you know...

illwrks 2y ago

Is this not the same as a gap year? I’m Irish but unfortunately never bothered with TY. I live in the UK now so I’ve a limited understanding of TY and the ‘Gap year’.

MattPalmer1086 2y ago
The article says it is like a gap year, but during secondary school. Clearly not the same as taking time off before university when you are already an adult though. Participation in some activities is required, so it's a bit more structured - and I don't think you can take off on your own to travel the world!
- talideon 2y ago
  It's nothing like a gap year. It's just less academically focused.
Macha 2y ago
A gap year is normally between the end of secondary school and starting college (so 18-20 or so). TY is between junior cycle (junior cert, or inter cert if you're older) and senior cycle (leaving cert). So 14-16 year olds (who couldn't legally take a gap year)
aussiegreenie 2y ago
The Gap Year is a year-long deferral from university or college. Sometimes, it occurs directly after finishing High School, and other times, it occurs in the middle of your course. Many countries allow young people (under 30) to live and work in-country under a Working Holiday visa. Both are effectively Young People travelling (aka backpacking).
piltdownman 2y ago
Gap Year is taken between 2nd and 3rd level education at the persons own impetus - generally used to backpack around SEA and/or work for a bit in the 'real world'. Transition Year is the 4th year of 2nd Level in Ireland - the conclusion of the 'Junior Cycle' of secondary school, culminating with the 10-14 Subject 'Junior Certificate' exam at the end of 3rd year. It is a regular year in terms of school attendance, but rather than academic modules structure against a strict curriculum, students tend to do a mix of practical and theoretical skills. Things like intro to psychology, philosophy, an esoteric language or other college accession style intro classes are popular. Photography/Film Making, Cooking, Self-Defense/Martial Arts classes are all popular on the practical side. Most of the religious schools (i.e. about 80% of all schools) tend to have a charity component as well - seeing TY students out collecting for Irish Cancer Society or packing bags in a supermarket to fund a local Hospice is pretty standard.

wiredfool 2y ago

The other 5 years of schooling at that level is all about the tests.

timthorn 2y ago

> it consistently fails to produce better results The performance of the English education system has improved markedly over the past couple of decades. At least, as measured by tests!

dijksterhuis 2y ago
my physics A level teacher did something really interesting with us. we spent a whole class looking at an old O Level question from an exam. all of us, including the boffins in the class, were completely stumped by it. he explained it to us at the end, but it did solidify an appreciation in me that, at least 20ish years ago, we definitely had it easier than folks before us.

SoftTalker 2y ago

> tests, tests and more tests Same in the USA. The old student question "will this be on the test?" is now also asked by teachers and administrators. If the answer is "no" they skip it.

spywaregorilla 2y ago
That's not unreasonable if you have good tests that hit the right elements. My experience about 10 years ago with the AP exams were very positive. The tests were good, and even though the classes were taught to the test, they were some of the best classes I ever took.
- bobthepanda 2y ago
  the problem, at least in the US, is that the tests and standards have tightened up without necessarily giving the teachers better training or better productivity tools to teach them, and now their job evaluations also depend on it, so now everybody is optimizing for the test. Usually to the detriment of subjects not on standardized testing like the arts or physical education or anything resembling a break time. Throw in the fact that in much of the country, teachers have to do things like pull second jobs to get by and beg parents for basic supplies like scissors and paper towels, and it's no wonder everything is falling apart.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- MattPalmer1086 2y ago
  Education should be about more than just passing standardised tests. I always remember my history teacher taking an entire term on the battles of the second world war. He brought in videos, old shell casings, all kinds of stuff. Everyone was into it, even kids who normally wouldn't pay attention. At the end of term he apologised to us, since none of that would be in the test, and now we would have to work harder to get through the exam material. We didn't mind; he had hooked us on the subject. But that is now rare. Increasingly teachers just teach to the test. And the number of tests the kids have to take keeps rising. The best you can say about it is everyone gets the same tedious and stressful introduction to everything, which only proves their ability to remember lots of stuff under time pressure.