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Without getting into the debate about whether or not what is happening is a "genocide" or not, your data proves nothing since it cuts off before the events in q
by dagw 2y ago
Without getting into the debate about whether or not what is happening is a "genocide" or not, your data proves nothing since it cuts off before the events in questions started. Why not post an updated graph and include the number up through end of September 2024 so that it would at least be a relevant data point to the discussion?
- Manuel_D 2y agoEven the most pessimistic estimates of casualties in Gaza are on the order of tens of thousands. That is not going to appreciably change the population.
- tsimionescu 2y agoNo, the most pessimistic casualty numbers are in the 180k+ range, including all of the missing people hidden in the rubble. The 45+k numbers include only people confirmed killed.
- Manuel_D 2y agoEven the Palstinian Health Ministry's own count is 45,000: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-death-toll-how-many-palestinians-has-israels-campaign-killed-2024-07-25/ https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/gaza-death-toll-ho...
- dagw 2y agoThe 180k number people cite includes deaths from starvation, disease and other causes that can be attributed to secondary effects of the military campaign.
- Manuel_D 2y agoYou do remember what event kicked off this military campaign just over a year ago, right? The blockade is part of the effort to press Hamas into releasing the remaining hostages. If the bulk of the deaths are due to starvation and disease stemming from the blockade, then the culpability of this "genocide" lies with Hamas.
- dagw 2y agothen the culpability of this "genocide" lies with Hamas. And that is a perfectly reasonable argument to make. There are lots of valid arguments for why Israel isn't committing genocide on the Palestinians. Irrelevant population graphs that don't cover the timespan in question are absolutely not one of them.
- tsimionescu 2y agoIsrael saying "we're going to kill and starve civilians until you give us what we want" does not make Hamas responsible for the civilian deaths any more than Hamas saying "we did October 7th and we'll do another unless you stop occupying us" makes Israel responsible for the murders perpetrated on that night.
- Manuel_D 2y agoIf someone kidnaps people and holds them hostage in a building, it's totally within the realm of reasonable response for the police to surround and isolate the building. If one of the kidnappers does of dehydration during the standoff, the police did not kill him. His own stubbornness and refusal to surrender is what killed him.
- tsimionescu 2y agoAgreed. But if the police then go and bomb the kidnappers's family homes, it's the police who are responsible for all those dead families, not the kidnappers.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sebastos 2y agoOk, now imagine the kidnappers escape with the hostages, and hole up in their family homes. The family members will answer the phone and they insist they are totally 100% innocent: they haven’t seen their scumbag kidnapper uncle in years! The family sure doesn’t seem to be very cooperative in helping authorities apprehend their uncle though…
- dagw 2y agoSo why did you even post that graph if it has nothing to do with anything?
- Manuel_D 2y ago[flagged]
- dagw 2y ago[flagged]
- dang 2y agoPlease stop, and if you'd please review the site guidelines and stick to them, we'd appreciate it: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- dang 2y agoPlease stop, and if you'd please review the site guidelines and stick to them, we'd appreciate it: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.