3 ms·

> Baseload is a term used ... 'nuff said.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Retric 2y ago
The space isn’t relevant as per current Wikipedia “The base load[2] (also baseload)” There’s an even older saying: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and prove it.” The article even goes on to use both, while making clear which definition the author is trying to promote: “Power plants that do not change their power output quickly, such as some large coal or nuclear plants, are generally called baseload power plants.[3][5][6]” In the wider context grid operators don’t actually care about the specific absolute lowest demand number. They need to operate 24/7 for years so whatever the minimum number happens to be for a single second just doesn’t matter much compared to blackouts and other extreme situations. Bottom 5th percentile matters from an economic standpoint, but very temporary extremes only matter in terms of resiliency.
- mpweiher 2y ago
  It's not the space. You've consistently mixed up "baseload" and "baseload generation" (not usually called that), irrespective of spaces. There is baseload. That's demand. "The base load[2] (also baseload) is the minimum level of demand on an electrical grid over a span of time, for example, one week." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load There is generation capacity that caters to that demand, for example "baseload generation" or better dispatchable generation. That is supply. > There’s an even older saying: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and prove it.” True, true... You understand the difference between supply and demand? "This demand can be met by unvarying power plants[3] or dispatchable generation,[4]" Dispatchable generation can also service variable demand, but it is difficult to impossible for non-dispatchable generation to service baseload.
  - Retric 2y ago
    > There is baseload. That's demand. You’re incorrect in several ways here. Utilities care about the supply they need to generate not total customer demand because of inefficiency in the transmission network. People like yourself got confused when reading about existing terms and have been using them incorrectly ever since. Anyway you’ve been spouting so much nonsense I’m only going to respond to a fraction of it. The minimum power demand is the easiest to reach with intermittent sources via even minimal storage being by definition the lowest relevant number. It’s also the least valuable electricity to supply which is why nobody actually does this. You use energy from batteries when the price of that energy is highest. That’s a function of energy markets not inherent limitations on the technology. It’s easy to move most use at 3AM to other times of the day because most of the consumption is due to cheap prices. Charging EV’s late at night happens specifically because there’s anything particular going on at 3AM and otherwise generation would be idle.
    - mpweiher 2y ago
      LOL. You confuse supply and demand and claim without any evidence the ridiculous assertion that I am not taking into account transmission losses. And baseload is only the easiest to supply when you have firm generating capacity. When you don't, you can't. Bye.
      - Retric 2y ago
        Terms of art don’t necessarily mean what you think they mean. Nobody can take into account transmission losses in real time because they don’t actually know want they are. They also can’t directly track use in real time, as such baseload etc is calculated from the supply side. They can know how much energy they are generating and they can look at the grid frequency/stability. Which is why they speak in terms of supply. Demand is always a lower and only indirectly relevant number. > have firm generation capacity Batteries charged from redundant but still cheap solar are more dependable than individual nuclear power plants. Nuclear power plants have historically have been offline roughly 10% of a given power plants total lifespan making it surprisingly difficult to consistently supply baseload with nuclear alone. Total availability of French nuclear power in 2022 for example was abysmal. Batteries can easily make up for short term instability, but nobody is paying for enough batteries to supply 1+GW 24/7 for 2 months because some nuclear power plant will eventually need maintenance.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

The space isn’t relevant as per current Wikipedia “The base load[2] (also baseload)” There’s an even older saying: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and prove it.” The article even goes on to use both, while making clear which definition the author is trying to promote: “Power plants that do not change their power output quickly, such as some large coal or nuclear plants, are generally called baseload power plants.[3][5][6]” In the wider context grid operators don’t actually care about the specific absolute lowest demand number. They need to operate 24/7 for years so whatever the minimum number happens to be for a single second just doesn’t matter much compared to blackouts and other extreme situations. Bottom 5th percentile matters from an economic standpoint, but very temporary extremes only matter in terms of resiliency.

mpweiher 2y ago
It's not the space. You've consistently mixed up "baseload" and "baseload generation" (not usually called that), irrespective of spaces. There is baseload. That's demand. "The base load[2] (also baseload) is the minimum level of demand on an electrical grid over a span of time, for example, one week." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load There is generation capacity that caters to that demand, for example "baseload generation" or better dispatchable generation. That is supply. > There’s an even older saying: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and prove it.” True, true... You understand the difference between supply and demand? "This demand can be met by unvarying power plants[3] or dispatchable generation,[4]" Dispatchable generation can also service variable demand, but it is difficult to impossible for non-dispatchable generation to service baseload.
- Retric 2y ago
  > There is baseload. That's demand. You’re incorrect in several ways here. Utilities care about the supply they need to generate not total customer demand because of inefficiency in the transmission network. People like yourself got confused when reading about existing terms and have been using them incorrectly ever since. Anyway you’ve been spouting so much nonsense I’m only going to respond to a fraction of it. The minimum power demand is the easiest to reach with intermittent sources via even minimal storage being by definition the lowest relevant number. It’s also the least valuable electricity to supply which is why nobody actually does this. You use energy from batteries when the price of that energy is highest. That’s a function of energy markets not inherent limitations on the technology. It’s easy to move most use at 3AM to other times of the day because most of the consumption is due to cheap prices. Charging EV’s late at night happens specifically because there’s anything particular going on at 3AM and otherwise generation would be idle.
  - mpweiher 2y ago
    LOL. You confuse supply and demand and claim without any evidence the ridiculous assertion that I am not taking into account transmission losses. And baseload is only the easiest to supply when you have firm generating capacity. When you don't, you can't. Bye.
    - Retric 2y ago
      Terms of art don’t necessarily mean what you think they mean. Nobody can take into account transmission losses in real time because they don’t actually know want they are. They also can’t directly track use in real time, as such baseload etc is calculated from the supply side. They can know how much energy they are generating and they can look at the grid frequency/stability. Which is why they speak in terms of supply. Demand is always a lower and only indirectly relevant number. > have firm generation capacity Batteries charged from redundant but still cheap solar are more dependable than individual nuclear power plants. Nuclear power plants have historically have been offline roughly 10% of a given power plants total lifespan making it surprisingly difficult to consistently supply baseload with nuclear alone. Total availability of French nuclear power in 2022 for example was abysmal. Batteries can easily make up for short term instability, but nobody is paying for enough batteries to supply 1+GW 24/7 for 2 months because some nuclear power plant will eventually need maintenance.