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It’s not the renewable cloud trying to redefine a term go back to 2005 on Wikipedia and you’ll see: “A base load power plant is one that provides a steady flow

by Retric 2y ago

It’s not the renewable cloud trying to redefine a term go back to 2005 on Wikipedia and you’ll see: “A base load power plant is one that provides a steady flow of power reguardless of total power demand by the grid. Typically, nuclear power plants and most coal fired power plants are considered base load because it is more efficient or safer to run at a set output instead of trying to precisely match power consumption demands.” https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Base_load&oldid=13520018 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Base_load&oldid=1... You can find that definition used regularly in older books dating well before renewables where a thing. 01 April 1967: “This paper states some of the basic principles concerning daily and annual load factor on power systems, and the use of load duration curves in coordinating the type and operating pattern of generating plant. Operating procedure is explained, and the types of plant in use or under construction in New Zealand are described. Overseas plant is divided into the categories of base load, medium load factor, and peaking, with an outline of the desirable characteristics in each case.” Also, time of day pricing shifts users to periods of low demand so it doesn’t represent the minimum need, just the observed demand under specific pricing schemes. If daytime rates fall well below nighttime rates continually the actual usage at 3AM would fall dramatically.

mpweiher 2y ago
> Baseload is a term used ... 'nuff said.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Retric 2y ago
  The space isn’t relevant as per current Wikipedia “The base load[2] (also baseload)” There’s an even older saying: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and prove it.” The article even goes on to use both, while making clear which definition the author is trying to promote: “Power plants that do not change their power output quickly, such as some large coal or nuclear plants, are generally called baseload power plants.[3][5][6]” In the wider context grid operators don’t actually care about the specific absolute lowest demand number. They need to operate 24/7 for years so whatever the minimum number happens to be for a single second just doesn’t matter much compared to blackouts and other extreme situations. Bottom 5th percentile matters from an economic standpoint, but very temporary extremes only matter in terms of resiliency.
  - mpweiher 2y ago
    It's not the space. You've consistently mixed up "baseload" and "baseload generation" (not usually called that), irrespective of spaces. There is baseload. That's demand. "The base load[2] (also baseload) is the minimum level of demand on an electrical grid over a span of time, for example, one week." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load There is generation capacity that caters to that demand, for example "baseload generation" or better dispatchable generation. That is supply. > There’s an even older saying: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and prove it.” True, true... You understand the difference between supply and demand? "This demand can be met by unvarying power plants[3] or dispatchable generation,[4]" Dispatchable generation can also service variable demand, but it is difficult to impossible for non-dispatchable generation to service baseload.
    - Retric 2y ago
      > There is baseload. That's demand. You’re incorrect in several ways here. Utilities care about the supply they need to generate not total customer demand because of inefficiency in the transmission network. People like yourself got confused when reading about existing terms and have been using them incorrectly ever since. Anyway you’ve been spouting so much nonsense I’m only going to respond to a fraction of it. The minimum power demand is the easiest to reach with intermittent sources via even minimal storage being by definition the lowest relevant number. It’s also the least valuable electricity to supply which is why nobody actually does this. You use energy from batteries when the price of that energy is highest. That’s a function of energy markets not inherent limitations on the technology. It’s easy to move most use at 3AM to other times of the day because most of the consumption is due to cheap prices. Charging EV’s late at night happens specifically because there’s anything particular going on at 3AM and otherwise generation would be idle.
      - mpweiher 2y ago
        LOL. You confuse supply and demand and claim without any evidence the ridiculous assertion that I am not taking into account transmission losses. And baseload is only the easiest to supply when you have firm generating capacity. When you don't, you can't. Bye.

by Retric 2y ago

mpweiher 2y ago

> Baseload is a term used ... 'nuff said.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Retric 2y ago
The space isn’t relevant as per current Wikipedia “The base load[2] (also baseload)” There’s an even older saying: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and prove it.” The article even goes on to use both, while making clear which definition the author is trying to promote: “Power plants that do not change their power output quickly, such as some large coal or nuclear plants, are generally called baseload power plants.[3][5][6]” In the wider context grid operators don’t actually care about the specific absolute lowest demand number. They need to operate 24/7 for years so whatever the minimum number happens to be for a single second just doesn’t matter much compared to blackouts and other extreme situations. Bottom 5th percentile matters from an economic standpoint, but very temporary extremes only matter in terms of resiliency.
- mpweiher 2y ago
  It's not the space. You've consistently mixed up "baseload" and "baseload generation" (not usually called that), irrespective of spaces. There is baseload. That's demand. "The base load[2] (also baseload) is the minimum level of demand on an electrical grid over a span of time, for example, one week." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load There is generation capacity that caters to that demand, for example "baseload generation" or better dispatchable generation. That is supply. > There’s an even older saying: “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and prove it.” True, true... You understand the difference between supply and demand? "This demand can be met by unvarying power plants[3] or dispatchable generation,[4]" Dispatchable generation can also service variable demand, but it is difficult to impossible for non-dispatchable generation to service baseload.
  - Retric 2y ago
    > There is baseload. That's demand. You’re incorrect in several ways here. Utilities care about the supply they need to generate not total customer demand because of inefficiency in the transmission network. People like yourself got confused when reading about existing terms and have been using them incorrectly ever since. Anyway you’ve been spouting so much nonsense I’m only going to respond to a fraction of it. The minimum power demand is the easiest to reach with intermittent sources via even minimal storage being by definition the lowest relevant number. It’s also the least valuable electricity to supply which is why nobody actually does this. You use energy from batteries when the price of that energy is highest. That’s a function of energy markets not inherent limitations on the technology. It’s easy to move most use at 3AM to other times of the day because most of the consumption is due to cheap prices. Charging EV’s late at night happens specifically because there’s anything particular going on at 3AM and otherwise generation would be idle.
    - mpweiher 2y ago
      LOL. You confuse supply and demand and claim without any evidence the ridiculous assertion that I am not taking into account transmission losses. And baseload is only the easiest to supply when you have firm generating capacity. When you don't, you can't. Bye.