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> even the iPad I’m typing When did it switch to ARM from x86. I don't really see any reasons why can't x86 and ARM just coexist long-term. Porting software i

> even the iPad I’m typing When did it switch to ARM from x86. I don't really see any reasons why can't x86 and ARM just coexist long-term. Porting software is relatively easy or not even necessary these days and ARM main advantage (that companies other than Intel/AMD can use it) is entirely non-technical (development + licensing costs) so as long as Intel/AMD can keep up they have no incentives at all to switch. Amazon's and Ampere's ARM server chips are significantly slower and less power efficient than the equivalent AMD chips (for Ampere at least, note sure if Amazon is sharing their power usage data but I doubt it's massively lower..) they are also 30-40% cheaper because you don't have to pay for AMD/Intel's oligopoly margins.

jitl 2y ago
At least as an AWS customer, switching from x86 to ARM looks quite appealing on the balance sheet! Same perf, many less $$$. Certainly there’s a large financial discount incentive for many workloads. A lot of stacks already have good support for ARM64 since a fair amount of developers run on macOS, so it’s pretty much just inertia keeping many on x86.
- Wytwwww 2y ago
  Yeah, but presumably mainly because it's just much cheaper for Amazon to make their own (technically inferior but it doesn't matter if you don't care about single-core perf) chips than having to pay for Intel/AMD's margins. Of course from the end-user perspective it doesn't matter. But long-term it might less lead to less competition allowing them hike up prices in the future. Of course other hyperscalers can and presumably are doing the same. However everyone else will be left out unless Ampere (or somebody else?) steps up.
fluoridation 2y ago
Isn't ARM's main and most visible advantage that its implementations are usually energy-efficient?
- Wytwwww 2y ago
  Is it? e.g. EPYC 9754, the equivalent to Neoverse ARM servers seems to have significantly better performance/power than Ampere's chips. Gravitron 4 seems to be slightly faster than the AmpereOne A192-32X, I don't know how much power it uses but I doubt it's significantly different. https://www.phoronix.com/review/ampereone-a192-32x/12#:~:text=The%20Ampere%20Altra%20Max%20M128%2D30%20could%20sip%20as%20little,just%2010%20Watts%20at%20idle https://www.phoronix.com/review/ampereone-a192-32x/12#:~:tex.... Of course the Ampere chip is significantly cheaper which I think is the main and most visible advantage ARM has for servers at least.
  - fluoridation 2y ago
    My bad, I thought you meant in general, not specifically in the DC space.

jitl 2y ago

At least as an AWS customer, switching from x86 to ARM looks quite appealing on the balance sheet! Same perf, many less $$$. Certainly there’s a large financial discount incentive for many workloads. A lot of stacks already have good support for ARM64 since a fair amount of developers run on macOS, so it’s pretty much just inertia keeping many on x86.

Wytwwww 2y ago
Yeah, but presumably mainly because it's just much cheaper for Amazon to make their own (technically inferior but it doesn't matter if you don't care about single-core perf) chips than having to pay for Intel/AMD's margins. Of course from the end-user perspective it doesn't matter. But long-term it might less lead to less competition allowing them hike up prices in the future. Of course other hyperscalers can and presumably are doing the same. However everyone else will be left out unless Ampere (or somebody else?) steps up.

fluoridation 2y ago

Isn't ARM's main and most visible advantage that its implementations are usually energy-efficient?

Wytwwww 2y ago
Is it? e.g. EPYC 9754, the equivalent to Neoverse ARM servers seems to have significantly better performance/power than Ampere's chips. Gravitron 4 seems to be slightly faster than the AmpereOne A192-32X, I don't know how much power it uses but I doubt it's significantly different. https://www.phoronix.com/review/ampereone-a192-32x/12#:~:text=The%20Ampere%20Altra%20Max%20M128%2D30%20could%20sip%20as%20little,just%2010%20Watts%20at%20idle https://www.phoronix.com/review/ampereone-a192-32x/12#:~:tex.... Of course the Ampere chip is significantly cheaper which I think is the main and most visible advantage ARM has for servers at least.
- fluoridation 2y ago
  My bad, I thought you meant in general, not specifically in the DC space.