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Being someone in a voluntary state of nomadism has made me realize that not having a fixed address is de facto illegal. Even worse, it cuts you off from all the

Being someone in a voluntary state of nomadism has made me realize that not having a fixed address is de facto illegal. Even worse, it cuts you off from all the things that are “privileges”, but essentially essential. A bank account, phone, driver’s license and so on will all require a residential address. This person even has a home, they just don’t have a recognized address. I’m lucky enough (like maybe most people voluntarily in my position) to have family that can support me with this. But what about the others? And other people who aren’t doing this voluntarily? It’s all held together with a wink and a nod when you just have to put something down. Unfortunately, I don’t see it changing any time soon. The unhoused isn’t a strong lobbying block. Not to mention the difficulty in voting in this situation. I get not being able to vote on municipal issues if this status was legally recognized, but surely I should have a say in state (California won’t let my “citizenship” and associated taxes go easily) and national politics. For the reasons listed in the article, it’s probably only going to get worse. Bummer.

maybestateless 2y ago
Okay, but there is a plethora of problems that I don't see a simple solution for. How do you prove you're nomading primarily in California? Or at least long term enough to have say in local politics.. and what is sufficient? 180 days a year? So if you move around 3 states you have no residency..? Voting is the right you get.. but how about the obligations? Are you on the hook for state income taxes? There are additional issues.. like say getting served a jury summons Having a registered address is a bit of clunky solution to a host of problems. I've lived a decade abroad and I honestly often have zero understanding of my legal status in the US. I can sort of figure out my status with the IRS - but for instance, am I still a resident of California? (the last state I lived in) Can I vote for state issues there? Can I renew my driver's license there? Do I need to pay taxes there? Am I stateless and have no way to get a license to use when I go back for Christmas? It's all a weird vague greyzone. For instance I have a license registered with a family member's address.. but I ignore jury summons entirely
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >am I still a resident of California? (the last state I lived in) Obligatory IANAL. My layman understanding is that that generally is the case; you are a resident of the last State you resided in prior to becoming an expat. Most people get around this by asking a friend or family member to use their address. This probably isn't completely legal, but it's not like there are problems significant enough that arise from this that someone in government would actually care.
- BlueTemplar 2y ago
  Have you looked it up ? To use a somewhat similar situation, AFAIK at least some things tend to be defined when you have multiple homes, or live in multiple countries : there tend to be minimum durations for living somewhere that give you rights and/or duties. Of course it's something harder to implement for true nomads, but some framework is already there. (And there's typically framework for nomads too already, though they historically do tend to be treated as very low class. As a fun fact, the concept of identity papers comes in large part from factory owners which tried to prevent otherwise nomad workers to flee bad working conditions.)
Teknomancer 2y ago
Estonian E-citizenship saved my butt a few years ago when due to fire I was forced to be homeless in the US, and as a nomadic van dweller found it very hard without a physical address and documents to prove I exist. My Estonian E-citizenship was all I had left, and offered me a lifeline when I got forced into a nomadic lifestyle without a permanent physical address. This sucks, especially in a country like the U.S., where residency requirements can hinder almost all essential activities. For someone like me working as a contract engineer, that access to e-services—like banking, digital signatures, and business registration allowed me to maintain some seamless continuity of professional operations throughout the ordeal. The digital infrastructure allowed me to maintain financial and legal stability, despite lacking a documents and a U.S. address. Estonian E-citizenship, as a US citizen was ironically easier to get than replacements for the national documents that were lost in the fire. Worth having! Pretty powerful tool for maintaining professional independence and resilience. Our systems in the U.S. seem totally cave man rock and stone in comparison.
- tracker1 2y ago
  I've had a wallet lost and another stolen. It was pretty easy to go the the MVD and have them replace my ID card, one of the times including an address update. They were able to identify me based on the photo in said system and was relatively painless. From there, getting a duplicate social security card has also been relatively painless. Even ordering replacement birth certificates, which includes county border changes since my birth. It takes a few weeks, and you do need a physical address to deliver to. I know there are homeless resources you can use as a physical address to receive mail like this when trying to re-establish your life. My SO and one of my friends both work with orgs in this space. It's not nearly as fast as some might like, but it isn't in the end all that difficult at all.
mise_en_place 2y ago
Every address you've ever officially used follows you forever. So it's not so much that not having a fixed address is illegal, it's illegal to erase or hide your residency history entirely. I still have mail that goes to relatives houses in states I haven't lived in over a decade, and there are mail-in ballots addressed to dead relatives being shipped to their previous residences as well. As an aside, if anyone still has faith in this electoral system, or any institution in America for that matter, I don't think they're adequately prepared for the Kafkaesque chaos that's about to become commonplace, if it hasn't already.
- travisjungroth 2y ago
  There are legal situations where you’re required to give your current residential address.
attendant3446 2y ago
It's not just the US, (Western?) Europe is exactly the same. You have to have an address with your name on the mailbox, and all legal verification works through the mail. No name on the mailbox - you are nobody. And it goes without saying: without an address, you won't get any "privileges" here.
- jampekka 2y ago
  At least in Finland not having an address is not a huge hassle. You can always put poste restante (a post office pickup) address if needed. Physical mail is quite rare for official business, and almost everything can be done online. But not having a bank account for authentication or a phone number for many things is a disaster. Banks are mandated to give free basic banking services for everybody though, and a prepaid number is OK. But in UK for example not having a utility bill with your name on it is a disaster.
  - BlueTemplar 2y ago
    Curious, to have that prepaid number, is it required to show an identity document, are other identity verification methods (like an affidavit) accepted, or is it just free to purchase ? Do those banks insist on having an iOS/Android smartphone ?
    - jampekka 2y ago
      No documents needed for a prepay number. And no smartphone required for banks, at least all of them. Authentication can be done with a password and a list of passcodes from the bank.
- yxhuvud 2y ago
  What? No, we certainly don't involve access to a mailbox in legal verification here in Sweden. Just use your id card or bank id everywhere. You must be registered at an address where post can be sent to you, however. We've had to add certain protections against people fraudulently registering themselves at your address, however. But I don't think sending mail to the address is involved.
yencabulator 2y ago
In the US, you do not need a residential address; you need a domicile. Your domicile determines e.g. what taxes you pay, and where you register your vehicles. You can't opt out of taxes ;) Your domicile can be a family member's or friend's residence, or you can pay a company to provide you with that service ("Commercial Mail Handling Agent"). I "lived" in a mail cubicle of a service provider company for some 3 years, while driving around the country in a motorhome. For bank KYC rules, the bank's automation may recognize and refuse prominent companies like that, much like they refuse PO boxes. A human may sometimes override that decision. That's unrelated to definition of domicile, and banks will generally also accept KYC information for a family member instead. Or you plan ahead and get KYC'ed before you move into non-traditional domicile situation.

maybestateless 2y ago

Okay, but there is a plethora of problems that I don't see a simple solution for. How do you prove you're nomading primarily in California? Or at least long term enough to have say in local politics.. and what is sufficient? 180 days a year? So if you move around 3 states you have no residency..? Voting is the right you get.. but how about the obligations? Are you on the hook for state income taxes? There are additional issues.. like say getting served a jury summons Having a registered address is a bit of clunky solution to a host of problems. I've lived a decade abroad and I honestly often have zero understanding of my legal status in the US. I can sort of figure out my status with the IRS - but for instance, am I still a resident of California? (the last state I lived in) Can I vote for state issues there? Can I renew my driver's license there? Do I need to pay taxes there? Am I stateless and have no way to get a license to use when I go back for Christmas? It's all a weird vague greyzone. For instance I have a license registered with a family member's address.. but I ignore jury summons entirely

Dalewyn 2y ago
>am I still a resident of California? (the last state I lived in) Obligatory IANAL. My layman understanding is that that generally is the case; you are a resident of the last State you resided in prior to becoming an expat. Most people get around this by asking a friend or family member to use their address. This probably isn't completely legal, but it's not like there are problems significant enough that arise from this that someone in government would actually care.
BlueTemplar 2y ago
Have you looked it up ? To use a somewhat similar situation, AFAIK at least some things tend to be defined when you have multiple homes, or live in multiple countries : there tend to be minimum durations for living somewhere that give you rights and/or duties. Of course it's something harder to implement for true nomads, but some framework is already there. (And there's typically framework for nomads too already, though they historically do tend to be treated as very low class. As a fun fact, the concept of identity papers comes in large part from factory owners which tried to prevent otherwise nomad workers to flee bad working conditions.)

Teknomancer 2y ago

Estonian E-citizenship saved my butt a few years ago when due to fire I was forced to be homeless in the US, and as a nomadic van dweller found it very hard without a physical address and documents to prove I exist. My Estonian E-citizenship was all I had left, and offered me a lifeline when I got forced into a nomadic lifestyle without a permanent physical address. This sucks, especially in a country like the U.S., where residency requirements can hinder almost all essential activities. For someone like me working as a contract engineer, that access to e-services—like banking, digital signatures, and business registration allowed me to maintain some seamless continuity of professional operations throughout the ordeal. The digital infrastructure allowed me to maintain financial and legal stability, despite lacking a documents and a U.S. address. Estonian E-citizenship, as a US citizen was ironically easier to get than replacements for the national documents that were lost in the fire. Worth having! Pretty powerful tool for maintaining professional independence and resilience. Our systems in the U.S. seem totally cave man rock and stone in comparison.

tracker1 2y ago
I've had a wallet lost and another stolen. It was pretty easy to go the the MVD and have them replace my ID card, one of the times including an address update. They were able to identify me based on the photo in said system and was relatively painless. From there, getting a duplicate social security card has also been relatively painless. Even ordering replacement birth certificates, which includes county border changes since my birth. It takes a few weeks, and you do need a physical address to deliver to. I know there are homeless resources you can use as a physical address to receive mail like this when trying to re-establish your life. My SO and one of my friends both work with orgs in this space. It's not nearly as fast as some might like, but it isn't in the end all that difficult at all.

mise_en_place 2y ago

Every address you've ever officially used follows you forever. So it's not so much that not having a fixed address is illegal, it's illegal to erase or hide your residency history entirely. I still have mail that goes to relatives houses in states I haven't lived in over a decade, and there are mail-in ballots addressed to dead relatives being shipped to their previous residences as well. As an aside, if anyone still has faith in this electoral system, or any institution in America for that matter, I don't think they're adequately prepared for the Kafkaesque chaos that's about to become commonplace, if it hasn't already.

travisjungroth 2y ago
There are legal situations where you’re required to give your current residential address.

attendant3446 2y ago

It's not just the US, (Western?) Europe is exactly the same. You have to have an address with your name on the mailbox, and all legal verification works through the mail. No name on the mailbox - you are nobody. And it goes without saying: without an address, you won't get any "privileges" here.

jampekka 2y ago
At least in Finland not having an address is not a huge hassle. You can always put poste restante (a post office pickup) address if needed. Physical mail is quite rare for official business, and almost everything can be done online. But not having a bank account for authentication or a phone number for many things is a disaster. Banks are mandated to give free basic banking services for everybody though, and a prepaid number is OK. But in UK for example not having a utility bill with your name on it is a disaster.
- BlueTemplar 2y ago
  Curious, to have that prepaid number, is it required to show an identity document, are other identity verification methods (like an affidavit) accepted, or is it just free to purchase ? Do those banks insist on having an iOS/Android smartphone ?
  - jampekka 2y ago
    No documents needed for a prepay number. And no smartphone required for banks, at least all of them. Authentication can be done with a password and a list of passcodes from the bank.
yxhuvud 2y ago
What? No, we certainly don't involve access to a mailbox in legal verification here in Sweden. Just use your id card or bank id everywhere. You must be registered at an address where post can be sent to you, however. We've had to add certain protections against people fraudulently registering themselves at your address, however. But I don't think sending mail to the address is involved.

yencabulator 2y ago

In the US, you do not need a residential address; you need a domicile. Your domicile determines e.g. what taxes you pay, and where you register your vehicles. You can't opt out of taxes ;) Your domicile can be a family member's or friend's residence, or you can pay a company to provide you with that service ("Commercial Mail Handling Agent"). I "lived" in a mail cubicle of a service provider company for some 3 years, while driving around the country in a motorhome. For bank KYC rules, the bank's automation may recognize and refuse prominent companies like that, much like they refuse PO boxes. A human may sometimes override that decision. That's unrelated to definition of domicile, and banks will generally also accept KYC information for a family member instead. Or you plan ahead and get KYC'ed before you move into non-traditional domicile situation.