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Show HN: Graphite, a Blender-inspired 2D procedural design Rust app

785 points by Keavon 2y ago

For the past three years I've been building what I hope will be the next Blender, tackling the lack of any good 2D design or image editing tools outside the Adobe monopoly. This was our first year participating in Google Summer of Code and this Q3 update includes the big payoff from that, covering the most progress we've made so far as a project. If you're a Rust dev, consider getting involved as we apply for the next GSoC in the new year— you could be our intern next summer :) Q3 progress report: https://graphite.rs/blog/graphite-progress-report-q3-2024/ https://graphite.rs/blog/graphite-progress-report-q3-2024/

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dang 2y ago
(The submitted URL was https://graphite.rs/blog/graphite-progress-report-q3-2024/ https://graphite.rs/blog/graphite-progress-report-q3-2024/ but I converted the post to a Show HN per https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and added the progress report link to the bottom of your text. I hope this helps!)
- Keavon 2y ago
  Thanks for keeping things tidy! I'm more used to the Reddit side of the internet so I appreciate the help keeping to the norms here on HN.
lacoolj 2y ago
This is really cool but I have an RTX 4080 and it's really struggling to open and subsequently manipulate the example art. Maybe just because it's in the browser?
- Keavon 2y ago
  That'd be because it's all CPU-based at the moment . So your 4080 is taking a vacation while your CPU hits the gym. That's obviously not ideal, but you'll have to trust me that it is due to long-term architectural planning reasons and not a blatant disregard for sensible development practices. Our node graph engine is really advanced—it's actually a scripting language built upon Rust and its type system—which will have some very sizable benefits once it's done being built. But right now, it means vital things like GPU compute have been blocked by a towering pile of other engineering work. But we've nearly completed those prerequisites and should be able to unlock GPU compute in the early parts of next year (this is also blocked on Firefox and Safari shipping WebGPU support, required to use compute shaders in the browser— and on us having the time to support Windows, Mac, and Linux builds via [Tauri](https://tauri.app/ https://tauri.app/)). In short, please be patient :) The app's architecture is designed with performance that'll make your CPU and GPU scream, but it's a big job building all of it. Especially for raster imagery, that's where a CPU-bottlenecked render pipeline is especially affected. But next year is the year we move on from vector graphics to raster once the GPU is utilized in the render pipeline. Thanks for taking a look!
  - john01dav 2y ago
    When you start supporting GPUs, what APIs do you plan to use (cuda, vulkan, dx, etc.)? It would be quite unfortunate to use a non-vendor-neutral API (for both OS and GPU vendor). I would probably use wgpu or vulkan for this.
    - Keavon 2y ago
      Everything will be using compute shaders for the foreseeable future. [WGPU](https://wgpu.rs/ https://wgpu.rs/) abstracts that to work with WebGPU on browsers, DirectX/Vulkan on Windows, Metal on Mac, and Vulkan on Linux and Android. There may be opportunities to explore vendor-specific options like CUDA in the far future to leverage a further increase in performance, but compute shaders are portable and nearly as good.
- 123pie123 2y ago
  yep, this almost killed my machine , I wasn't to sure if it was my PC or firefox
dang 2y ago
Related. Others? [Open source Rust graphics editor] Graphite progress report (Q2 2024) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41138691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41138691 - Aug 2024 (3 comments) Graphite 2D graphics editor built in Rust: Looking back on 2023 and what's next - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38855850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38855850 - Jan 2024 (2 comments) Graphite: 2D Raster and Vector Editor - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38169500 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38169500 - Nov 2023 (4 comments) Graphite: Open-source raster and vector 2D graphics editor - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36901406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36901406 - July 2023 (64 comments) Graphite – open-source raster and vector 2D graphics editor written in Rust - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30675530 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30675530 - March 2022 (18 comments)
egypturnash 2y ago
This looks neat. I’ve been using Illustrator for twenty five years and have been wishing for a node-oriented replacement of the Appearance stack a lot lately. I will have to check it out when you have binaries, I hate web apps.
- egypturnash 2y ago
  (Looking at the videos: global color swatches please, it’s super powerful to be able to change everything drawn in a color - fills, strokes, effects, etc - with a few clicks.)
  - Keavon 2y ago
    I'm eager for that feature too! The node graph engine recently got the ability to represent that concept, so now I just need to find the time to design and build the UI for it. I utilize that feature a lot in other software so it'll be really helpful to have in Graphite as well.
    - egypturnash 2y ago
      If you don't have a way to bundle up a collection of nodes and apply it to another object or bring it to another document with just a few clicks, that's super powerful too. I rely on that constantly in Illustrator. And constantly grumble at the fact that there's no way to have folders in the Graphic Styles palette where these collections of nodes live, since I can easily have a dozen styles for one character when I'm doing comics. ---- although I just played with it and judging by the state of your layers palette there's clearly a lot of stuff to do in terms of organizing the elements of the document in general - to me, documents contain one of more layers, that contain paths, compound paths, groups of paths, and/or layers, and I can choose to place new paths at the top or bottom of any layer (or inside a clipping path); Graphite just calls every path a "layer" and this becomes very unwieldy within a few seconds of drawing shapes.
- skavi 2y ago
  Is Electron really so different in your experience than a PWA? Personally, I always try to use a PWA when the app is otherwise offered via Electron. If it’s going to depend on a browser engine, it may as well be the one I already have open and update regularly.
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adastra22 2y ago
What UI crate are you using for the GUI?
- Keavon 2y ago
  Right now, it's a custom HTML/CSS/TypeScript component system using Svelte built to minimize bloat. But since Graphite is a data-driven graphics app and render engine, we are planning to gradually rewrite our UI components as Graphite documents— allowing us to design the editor's UI within its own editor UI. Once that happens, we can probably drop the web dependencies— although we've taken pains to ensure our current web dependencies are very lightweight and performant. All the slow parts of Graphite are due to backend engineering shortcuts we've taken to enable forward progress, and those are stopgaps that are actively being worked on to be rebuilt into proper, high-performance systems.
  - airstrike 2y ago
    Have you considered using Iced? It can be hard to figure out at first but it's blazing fast, cross-platform and can compile to WASM. It's also _beautifully_ designed. Importantly, it's both "just Rust" and "very Rust". You can stay on the yellow brick road and kinda just get the app out there with incredible multi-threaded CPU + GPU rendering performance from the outset... or dig deeper and go into advanced stuff. Per the docs, it "leverages Rust to its full extent: ownership, borrowing, lifetimes, futures, streams, first-class functions"... it's just up to you how much of that you want to use The documentation is admittedly WIP but if you need help, the Discord server is very helpful. I'm there virtually 24/7 and happy to answer any questions The repo is at https://github.com/iced-rs/iced https://github.com/iced-rs/iced -- check out the readme for two complex apps recently built. It's fully themeable so you can make apps look exactly as you want them to (which is a downside for those looking for more native widgets)
    - Keavon 2y ago
      It was a top contender when I was picking a GUI solution but it didn't meet the cut. Remember that this was 3.5 years ago. The decision to go with HTML/CSS was undoubtedly the right one and it'll continue to treat us well for the foreseeable future. But we are beginning to rewrite certain areas, like the node graph, in our own render stack because this streamlines the code best. And other widgets like histograms, color scopes, etc. will continue to be built with our own renderer. And then at some point, it will start making sense to begin gradually replacing other parts of our UI with the regular widgets like buttons and checkboxes with that system. Doing so will help us simplify things and make them more user-customizable, so plugin authors can affect the UI, etc.
bangaladore 2y ago
I had to re-read your intro paragraph a few times to understand what this is supposed to be. I read it as a replacement for Blender, but upon testing it I was confused as everything was 2D and looks like Photoshop. But no, you meant the next Photoshop, while referencing Blender as a popular open source version of closed-source 3D modeling/rendering software? Is that right?
- Keavon 2y ago
  Upon rereading that paragraph, I suppose I didn't write that as clearly as I'd meant to. Blender is darn near perfect and there'd be no reason to replace it. So yes, as you figured out, I'm referring to becoming a second Blender but this time in the 2D realm: a generalist tool that uses actual innovation to catch up and then surpass its commercial competitors.
  - crabmusket 2y ago
    Graphite is to Photoshop as Blender is to 3DS Max?
    - Keavon 2y ago
      Roughly speaking, that's the plan, with next year's roadmap focused on raster (image and raw photo) editing. Currently, Illustrator would be the more appropriate comparison instead of Photoshop, because vector editing is the primary feature set we've built so far.
    - timeon 2y ago
      Reminds me more Affinity Designer than Photoshop. Since it is also for vectors. In Adobe land you need two apps for this. (Well actually three - omnipresent Creative-Cloud eating the resources in background.)
  - germandiago 2y ago
    Good luck, you are going to need it.
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mightyham 2y ago
Congrats on releasing such a complex tool, that's a big achievement. Someday, I'd like to try my hand at making my own vector graphics tool that contains a constraint solver. I am just an amateur when it comes to graphic design, but I often find Inkscape incredibly difficult to use. Certain shapes take bizarre combinations of commands to create and once a design is finished it can be hard to make adjustments. I find it much easier to make 2D designs as a fusion 360 sketches because constraining a bunch of lines and curves then playing with measurements is significantly more intuitive and interactive. Also maybe a tool like this already exists and I'm just not aware of it.
- Keavon 2y ago
  Definitely! And in fact, that is on our [roadmap](https://graphite.rs/features/#:~:text=CAD%2Dlike%20constraint%20relationships https://graphite.rs/features/#:~:text=CAD%2Dlike%20constrain...). Maybe you could get involved instead of making something separate.
  - mightyham 2y ago
    Awesome! If I ever find the time, I will definitely look into contributing.
  - kakkun 2y ago
    I'm really looking forward to that. It's something I tried to tackle but unfortunately had to give up on.
- WillAdams 2y ago
  The closest thing would be Solvespace --- might want to look at Dune3D.
  - mightyham 2y ago
    Those are both 3D CAD programs though, and almost all CAD software supports 2D parametric sketching. I mostly just find strange though that such a ubiquitous feature in CAD, which allows for fast creation and manipulation of 2D shapes, is missing from every vector graphics tool I've used.
senectus1 2y ago
this looks really promising. I'm missing the old days of PSP to dr up some image for meme fun etc. This looks like it'd do the job.
bufferoverflow 2y ago
The appeal of Blender for me is not just the open-sourceness, but also the fact that everything in it is programmable. Any action you can do via UI, you can do by calling some Python method. Why create a new project instead of advancing InkScape though?
- Keavon 2y ago
  Graphite is built to be a programmatic data processing pipeline that takes the form of a render engine and WYSIWYG editor. You'll be able to write custom code for every part of the system. And because it's time for a fresh start. Sometimes you can't turn around a heavy ship, and that ship doesn't want to be turned around. It's easy to write a sentence like that, but once you actually think about it, how does an outsider with a good idea and a capability to execute on it somehow approach an existing project and decide to "take it over"? That would be neither viable nor would it yield a desirable outcome. We're building something fundamentally different from Inkscape that just so happens to eclipse it.
  - lionkor 2y ago
    Absolutely - as with so many large open source projects, the maintainers and community are (rightfully) going to be sceptical of any newcomers. This leaves only three options: 1. start contributing to the project slowly, try to get into their ranks, participate in conversation, and hope that you share the same vision 2. fork it and learn the codebase by yourself 3. write your own Out of those, given the obviously conscious choice to go with Rust, and the ambitious goals, the third option is the only one that makes sense.
    - Keavon 2y ago
      Exactly! The only thing harder than making something so ambitious would be doing it in a huge legacy codebase with an existing leadership team fighting against someone vying to rock the boat. Being new is an opportunity, not a flaw. It means there's a lot of work to do, but that's tractable with the right organization structure that I think we've successfully managed to build— and it's something other projects really struggle with, so starting fresh in that respect also avoids problems from cultural elements that could very well be the blame for the inadequacies of those existing projects.
emmanueloga_ 2y ago
Wow this looks fantastic! Good open-source tools for design are so necessary [1]. You should probably add Graphite to this list [2]. I'll definitely try Graphite and follow its progress. Good luck! -- 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lthVYUB8JLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lthVYUB8JLs 2: https://github.com/KenneyNL/Adobe-Alternatives https://github.com/KenneyNL/Adobe-Alternatives
- devsda 2y ago
  Adding to the above, in a way this can also be self hosted and is a candidate for the awesome selfhosted list [1]. 1. https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted
  - Keavon 2y ago
    It looks like that list tends more towards home-server self-hosted SaaS kinds of software rather than desktop apps. With our upcoming desktop app, and the fact that you can install it right now as a PWA, there's really no benefit from self-hosting. Your data is already client-side, so there's nothing for the server to do besides act as a CDN and send some tiny static assets. Unless people are going somewhere without internet, there's really no point in self-hosting the static files instead of using our CDN. Since we don't even have a server backend (except for a proxy to the Google Fonts API which we need to keep our API key private).
    - devsda 2y ago
      I (mis?)understood one of the features for 1.0 "Cloud document storage" as some sort of custom storage server, webdav or other remote filesystem support. If there's no plan for that or if its limited to usual suspects like GDrive, Dropbox etc., then I guess there's not much benefit to selfhosting.
      - Keavon 2y ago
        That's all far-future stuff that will let us continue to grow towards our larger ambitions further down the roadmap with a revenue stream that isn't purely dependent upon donations, which isn't sustainable on its own. It will always be a purely separate value-add that's not shoved down the throat of users— a subset of users will find that helpful and pay for the storage and most users won't care and won't be bothered about it. But we don't have any of that yet, and won't for a while.
nassimm 2y ago
Looks good! I'm not too much into graphics these days, but when I was I would've loved that.
ChadNauseam 2y ago
Wow, cool! I think I remember a post years ago about this project. IIRC you did a thesis in something to do with simulating brush strokes? Anyway, congrats on releasing this, super impressive to have worked on this for so long and come out with something that looks so good. (And it's awesome that you're looking into using Vello too.)
- Keavon 2y ago
  You remember correctly! Here's that thesis code <https://github.com/Keavon/Brush-Nodes https://github.com/Keavon/Brush-Nodes>. You can ignore the readme since it doesn't talk about brushes and open the GitHub Pages site (or, I can just link it here: <https://keavon.github.io/Brush-Nodes/ https://keavon.github.io/Brush-Nodes/>). Then press Ctrl+1, Ctrl+2, Ctrl+3, or Ctrl+4 and reload the page after each. Be patient as it takes a couple seconds to load the page once a demo is chosen. That'll load the four brush demos: - Ctrl+1: dotted stamp roller - Ctrl+2: bristle brush - Ctrl+3: diluted ink - Ctrl+4: ragged solid ink brush This concept will be reimplemented in Graphite eventually. Maybe as a GSoC project. The actual thesis write-up is here <https://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/2653/ https://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/2653/> in case you're really interested for some reason.
dzaima 2y ago
Oh cool! I've had a very unfinished unpublished SVG editor from a couple years ago with blender-ish controls that I started cleaning up a couple days ago; guess I don't need to anymore. Here are some things in mine that I've found useful but don't see here (/ might have missed) and could be food for thought (presumably some of these are just NYI but noting them regardless): [edit: a couple of these things are already noted at https://github.com/GraphiteEditor/Graphite/issues/1870 https://github.com/GraphiteEditor/Graphite/issues/1870] - shift+G/R/S for setting handle mode (bent, colinear, and colinear+equidistant respectively) works out quite intuitively; mode can be displayed as a different icon on the point (square for bent, rectangle aligned to angle for colinear, and circle for equidistant is what I use; circle is somewhat questionable but my handles have arrow tips) - while holding just a handle, set the rotation/scale anchor point to its point - allow both rotate and scale at the same time (maybe never useful but I still did it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) - while rotating/scaling, some shortcut for setting the anchor point (esp. snapped to an element representing the rotational center of a symmetric design) - middle-mouse-dragging while holding an element should ignore the delta mouse movement during the movement - I draw visual indicators of the current r/g/s accumulated action (g: a line from the starting mouse position in the canvas to where it'd be dragged to; s: line from the anchor point through the current and original mouse position with different colors (i.e. the ratio of the color lengths is the ratio of scaling); r: lines from the anchor to original & current mouse position, with an arc in between (very busy-looking, don't quite like it)) - some actions - cut a path into two (a thing I don't have but have wanted is drag-selecting to cut into three), snapping to existing points if near enough; and another to join paths if two end-points are selected; and select all linked to current selection
- Keavon 2y ago
  Thanks, those are really useful! Would you mind copy and pasting those into a comment in https://github.com/GraphiteEditor/Graphite/issues/1870 https://github.com/GraphiteEditor/Graphite/issues/1870 to help us keep track of those suggestions? I'd like to revisit them again.
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wg0 2y ago
This is amazing. I love Inskcapke but I think this tool is too good. It makes me very excited to see tools that are built as web apps because more gravity on web means more capabilities for the web platform which is more open and accessible. Rust is great - amazing. I presume it is compiled to Web Assembly. I'm just wondering how and why these three passionate gifted individuals didn't go Round A, Round B Investor funding, post valuation SAFE, Press briefing route? Been thinking a lot about it lately when I see tons of AI wrappers, open weight fine tuned packaged models and everything in between. Probably passion can't be priced? Happiness is not valuation?
- jokethrowaway 2y ago
  You won't get funding for a vector editor. Re: open weight models Most of the innovation happens within companies who use OSS to either appeal to developers or to destroy potential competitors (think Meta spending a fraction of its ad revenue just to ruin the market for OpenAI / Microsoft) Some individuals get grants from VCs who want to make a name in AI for themselves for the cost of peanuts (eg. a16z sponsors some models) At the same time, for wealthy tech people with skills and a well paid job (think 300-500) raising capital is not always an attractive proposition. You'll likely have a lower salary when doing your own startup and if it turns out your open model can't make enough money you'll just have a bunch of worthless equity and 1-2 years of high stress / pressure.
  - wg0 2y ago
    Figma comes to mind. But yes, your rest of the analysis follows on the dot and makes perfect sense.
  - ChadNauseam 2y ago
    You could totally get funding for a vector editor. A friend of mine got funding for a node-based video editor.
- crabmusket 2y ago
  > I'm just wondering how and why these three passionate gifted individuals didn't go Round A, Round B Investor funding, post valuation SAFE, Press briefing route? Maybe they wanted to work for themselves, not for a VC?
martin_henk 2y ago
Wow! That's something really useful and awesome. Shame on Adobe while having so much resources not pushing more to build a diverse eco system of creative apps like Graphite
revskill 2y ago
Love the design.
android521 2y ago
this is cool.great job.
qwertox 2y ago
This is the kind of stuff I love to see at the top of HN, that application looks absolutely professional. When searching for "scripting" on the pages, I don't see any scripting support. Are there plans to integrate it? Also some kind of API?
- Keavon 2y ago
  Thanks! No support for custom scripts yet. But the whole concept is that we're basically building a WYSIWYG editor on top of a node-based compositor on top of a visual programming language (so that's three products in one, lots of work ahead for us!). The result is that the whole thing is a programmatic data pipeline and you'll be able to write custom scripts in both node and code form, then compose them into reusable pieces and pipelines. But since we're building three products in one, we have only been able to focus on the parts that matter most to get things working. Your request hasn't yet been one of those, but worry not, that's very much a core feature.
  - WillAdams 2y ago
    Is it possible to draw a Bézier curve, then decompose it in the Node Editor to a set of numeric nodes which input into a Bézier node? I couldn't figure out how to do that (mentioned it elsethread).
    - Keavon 2y ago
      You could ask that in our Discord and we can give more advanced guidance, but that isn't something we specifically have nodes for yet. We are building a spreadsheet view for working with all the data in numeric form, and once we have that plus some nodes for interacting with the spreadsheet data, your use case will become more naturally represented.
      - WillAdams 2y ago
        This is a usage model which I would advocate for --- the ability to record series of actions and then edit them made using WordBASIC to automate Microsoft Word far more accessible/discoverable for me.
eternityforest 2y ago
Love it! I've never liked how 2D graphics currently involves so many separate programs and forces you into a feed forward pipeline workflow.
lionkor 2y ago
What a fantastic UX. You guys can really be very proud. Between this and Zed there are already two apps that can replace everyday apps for me. I wish I could do this kind of Rust code in my day job.
OhNoNotAgain_99 2y ago
Why not extend blender, then it becomes so much more powerfull. ea 3d print, animate, render, use for vfx in videos
virtualritz 2y ago
I opened a medium complex SVG and the app became unresponsive beyond useable. After scaling it down by manually entering the scale values I could not find the SVG any more (the Align... buttons in the top bar are always grayed out/not implemented yet, it seems). Every update (even moving the canvas around takes 1-2 secs on my laptop. TLDR; looks like this is redrawing everything every time which makes it useable only for very simple projects atm, unless I miss sth. I.e. needs caching of vectors as bitmaps/textures of some sort. Also doesn't seem to support OpenEXRs yet? They won't show in the file browser. Screenshots look great and I love the node editor's mapping to the layer stack. But as always with Graphite it's still unclear to me how many of the screenshots show actual functinality and how many are mockups or the functionality behind some UI elements is simply not implemented yet.
Vox_Leone 2y ago
So easy, so nice. Beautiful work, really amazing. Congratulations and thank you.
WillAdams 2y ago
This is almost exactly the tool I have wanted for a long while. The one thing is when something is drawn in the interactive UI, rather than becoming a single node which cannot be decomposed/worked with via sub-elements, it should become (or there should be an option for) "ungrouping" it to an equivalent set of nodes/values --- if this capability is present, I couldn't figure it out, and I'd be glad to know of it.
- WillAdams 2y ago
  See answer at: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41862107 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41862107
- Keavon 2y ago
  Feel free to drop by our Discord and go into more detail about this. I think we may need to discuss it for me to understand exactly what you're describing.
kranke155 2y ago
This is incredible. Thank you for this. The Adobe suite is a bunch of bugs stuck together for the benefit of no one in particular, at this point. Hopefully with time and donations this can disrupt the market as Blender did in 3D.
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FrustratedMonky 2y ago
Is there any dependencies that would not allow this to be compiled to WASM? I just think sometimes when I see cool apps like this, it seems like there could be a new wave of cool web/phone apps using RUST/WASM. Something about these Rust examples just seem snappier, sharper.
- hucker 2y ago
  You're in luck, this seems to _only_ support WASM in the browser for the time being. > Graphite's code architecture is structured to deliver native performance for your graphically intensive workloads on desktop platforms and very low overhead on the web thanks to WebAssembly and WebGPU
bethemoly 2y ago
This sounds like a big project—congrats on releasing it! Just curious, as a business other than a hobby, do you have enough resources to see it through?
- Keavon 2y ago
  Everything we do is bootstrapped through donations and volunteer development time. When our main other core contributor graduates in a year, we'll need the funds to hire him, so we will be pushing that donation angle more in the coming year as well as applying for grants. I personally would like to be paid eventually, but I'm well-equipped to keep at this for a while before finances become a problem in my life. I can be not paid, but can't pay others. As a project, we have longer-term business plans that let us stay sustainable and independent and not wholly dependent upon donations: a combination of asset store payment processing, cloud document storage, and render farm services for people who wish to opt into paying for those value-adds that are otherwise not part of the main product. A decade from now, I'd like to actually recoup my investment, but I don't want to sell out to investors.
  - joelignaatius 2y ago
    Yours is the sort of project where if I had a boatload of money I'd just find it no strings attached through your project forecast. This would be such an excellent tool for artists with light pen integration.
TechSquidTV 2y ago
Immediately looking at the screenshot and I'm impressed. No further review I can tell this is different. I've always said we need more "Blender"-like projects out there to take on Adobe. I see you potentially have plans to take on other apps as well. Following and hoping for your success.
deskr 2y ago
This is one of the more interesting projects I've seen for a while. Excellent landing page by the way.
- Keavon 2y ago
  Thanks! Do you mean the website home page, or the app's welcome screen?
  - deskr 2y ago
    I was referring to the link posted to HN: https://graphite.rs/ https://graphite.rs/
aDyslecticCrow 2y ago
This looks awesome! It looks like a decent Illustrator alternative with its own identity. Even the basics are more competent than Inkscape.
deskr 2y ago
Some suggestions: I was doing something and then suddently I got a red error message, "The document cannot be rendered in it current state", instructing me to click the Node Graph button. 1. I couldn't find that button. Perhaps show a picture of it or just embed it in the error message. 2. Make the error text selectable. 3. Let me report the bug straight from the app?
- noisy_boy 2y ago
  I got the same error when I was doing the tutorial (which went quite well) and was doing the steps for circular repeat of the sun rays. Pressing Ctrl-Z undid practically all the work instead of just the last wrong change (not sure what caused it).
  - Keavon 2y ago
    Ah yes, good find: the stroke node can only apply to vector data, but when you use the Circular Repeat node, it now produces group data (as it should have always done). The fix is to put the Stroke node first to avoid the type error. I'll see what I can do to update the tutorial with that info, and to try to make the Stroke node more robust so it could apply to all group elements. I'm surprised that Ctrl+Z undid more than one step, I've never seen that before. If you get the chance to reproduce that and write up the steps, please file an issue since we'd like to take a look into that.
    - noisy_boy 2y ago
      I can try to reproduce but don't want to go through all the steps every time in case things go wrong again. Is there a savepoint/export/import kind of feature? I think a tutorial regarding basics such as how to find shortcuts, do's/dont's for new beginners might help.
      - Keavon 2y ago
        You can save the document and reopen it later just like in any other program. You might not be able to reproduce the graph validity error anymore because we fixed the specific bug you encountered. The input hints bar at the bottom shows what buttons you can press in any context, but that's a good idea to mention it in upcoming tutorials because I've noticed that users tend to ignore it. Hover tooltips and the app menu also both display shortcuts, which are worth pointing out in future tutorials as well. Thanks for that suggestion.
short_sells_poo 2y ago
I'm so glad this is a genuine product that stands by it's own merit rather than trying to sell itself on the basis of being written in Rust. I feel too many products that use some fancy new tech in development make that aspect part of the sales pitch. It is certainly interesting for us here, but the users of the tool will only care about the technical side to the degree that the tool is stable, performant and continues to be developed. I'm not an illustrator so I can't add much beyond that, but I'm rooting for the devs to turn it into a success!
zdw 2y ago
Is there a comparison/contrast with Krita anywhere?
- Keavon 2y ago
  Krita is a painting application. Graphite is a vector editing application. There is currently no overlap between the two apps. We intend to eventually build a painting application workflow, but that isn't something we're focused on yet and we'll likely prioritize other area first because Krita is a competent tool for painting already, which digital artist should use for that workflow until we someday have the time to build something even better.
anthk 2y ago
Similarly, there's Kons-9 for 3D procedural imaging/modelling written in Common Lisp.
cozzyd 2y ago
Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I find it somewhat non-intuitive that each stroke / circle / box is automatically its own layer, rather than the layers being explicit, as they are in Inkscape. That makes the layers essentially useless for me.
handity 2y ago
Please make First and Last name optional in your email signup form, there's no reason for that to be mandatory.
- Keavon 2y ago
  It's not mandatory, you can enter any name you wish.
fwip 2y ago
Very cool! One comment, one question. 1) panning the node graph of the leaves demo seemed slow / laggy on my macbook pro in chrome, which gave an initial low-quality feeling - moving nodes was nice and responsive. 2) Given that this is written in Rust (compiled), is it on the roadmap to 'export' the parameterized designs into some callable library code? e.g: a game engine that calls "leaves = generate_texture("changing_leaves.graphite", percentage=0.2)"? It would be cool to keep that configurability even once you leave the editor - basically, splitting the node-graph renderer out as its own library that you can call programmatically.
- Keavon 2y ago
  1. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41854076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41854076 2. Yes, you got it! That's very much something we are building towards, and you hit it on the nail in describing how that will work and the utility it will provide to people across many industries from game dev to backend services.
  - fwip 2y ago
    Awesome! Composable tools rule.
lavela 2y ago
Could you see this having a CAD-like mode? I really see a gap there in terms of open-source projects. I see that you have constraints on your roadmap, but that's not what I mean. I am specifically referring to the 2D mode of Vectorworks, which is, special modules aside, really just a vector editor with support for hairlines and representational line styling (so lines don't have a 'real' thickness, but you set semantical pen thickness). The main feature here is more about the path drawing workflow, which enables you to efficiently work with exact measurements. E.g. to draw a line you'd click to start, hover on the desired angle, enter number, (optionally press tab, enter exact angle,) click. A rectangle, say, would have additional parameters to access via tab. So thinking about it, it in fact it is kind of a restraints system, but it only applies to the current drawing process and has the absolute minimum needed key presses/actions as possible, because you need to do this a lot (Sketchup works simlar, too) I could see myself working on something like that, but didn't see anything pointing in that direction in your open tasks, so I am wondering if that would be in scope for graphite.
- Keavon 2y ago
  That's all definitely in-scope. If you'd be motivated to contribute it, there should also be nothing that's really blocking it right now if you're willing to dive into the implementation details. Please join our Discord and let's talk about it more.
conaclos 2y ago
Does Graphite support baseline grids as Scribus does?

785 points by Keavon 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

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dang 2y ago

(The submitted URL was https://graphite.rs/blog/graphite-progress-report-q3-2024/ https://graphite.rs/blog/graphite-progress-report-q3-2024/ but I converted the post to a Show HN per https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and added the progress report link to the bottom of your text. I hope this helps!)

Keavon 2y ago
Thanks for keeping things tidy! I'm more used to the Reddit side of the internet so I appreciate the help keeping to the norms here on HN.

lacoolj 2y ago

This is really cool but I have an RTX 4080 and it's really struggling to open and subsequently manipulate the example art. Maybe just because it's in the browser?

Keavon 2y ago
That'd be because it's all CPU-based at the moment . So your 4080 is taking a vacation while your CPU hits the gym. That's obviously not ideal, but you'll have to trust me that it is due to long-term architectural planning reasons and not a blatant disregard for sensible development practices. Our node graph engine is really advanced—it's actually a scripting language built upon Rust and its type system—which will have some very sizable benefits once it's done being built. But right now, it means vital things like GPU compute have been blocked by a towering pile of other engineering work. But we've nearly completed those prerequisites and should be able to unlock GPU compute in the early parts of next year (this is also blocked on Firefox and Safari shipping WebGPU support, required to use compute shaders in the browser— and on us having the time to support Windows, Mac, and Linux builds via [Tauri](https://tauri.app/ https://tauri.app/)). In short, please be patient :) The app's architecture is designed with performance that'll make your CPU and GPU scream, but it's a big job building all of it. Especially for raster imagery, that's where a CPU-bottlenecked render pipeline is especially affected. But next year is the year we move on from vector graphics to raster once the GPU is utilized in the render pipeline. Thanks for taking a look!
- john01dav 2y ago
  When you start supporting GPUs, what APIs do you plan to use (cuda, vulkan, dx, etc.)? It would be quite unfortunate to use a non-vendor-neutral API (for both OS and GPU vendor). I would probably use wgpu or vulkan for this.
  - Keavon 2y ago
    Everything will be using compute shaders for the foreseeable future. [WGPU](https://wgpu.rs/ https://wgpu.rs/) abstracts that to work with WebGPU on browsers, DirectX/Vulkan on Windows, Metal on Mac, and Vulkan on Linux and Android. There may be opportunities to explore vendor-specific options like CUDA in the far future to leverage a further increase in performance, but compute shaders are portable and nearly as good.
123pie123 2y ago
yep, this almost killed my machine , I wasn't to sure if it was my PC or firefox

dang 2y ago

Related. Others? [Open source Rust graphics editor] Graphite progress report (Q2 2024) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41138691 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41138691 - Aug 2024 (3 comments) Graphite 2D graphics editor built in Rust: Looking back on 2023 and what's next - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38855850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38855850 - Jan 2024 (2 comments) Graphite: 2D Raster and Vector Editor - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38169500 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38169500 - Nov 2023 (4 comments) Graphite: Open-source raster and vector 2D graphics editor - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36901406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36901406 - July 2023 (64 comments) Graphite – open-source raster and vector 2D graphics editor written in Rust - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30675530 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30675530 - March 2022 (18 comments)

egypturnash 2y ago

This looks neat. I’ve been using Illustrator for twenty five years and have been wishing for a node-oriented replacement of the Appearance stack a lot lately. I will have to check it out when you have binaries, I hate web apps.

egypturnash 2y ago
(Looking at the videos: global color swatches please, it’s super powerful to be able to change everything drawn in a color - fills, strokes, effects, etc - with a few clicks.)
- Keavon 2y ago
  I'm eager for that feature too! The node graph engine recently got the ability to represent that concept, so now I just need to find the time to design and build the UI for it. I utilize that feature a lot in other software so it'll be really helpful to have in Graphite as well.
  - egypturnash 2y ago
    If you don't have a way to bundle up a collection of nodes and apply it to another object or bring it to another document with just a few clicks, that's super powerful too. I rely on that constantly in Illustrator. And constantly grumble at the fact that there's no way to have folders in the Graphic Styles palette where these collections of nodes live, since I can easily have a dozen styles for one character when I'm doing comics. ---- although I just played with it and judging by the state of your layers palette there's clearly a lot of stuff to do in terms of organizing the elements of the document in general - to me, documents contain one of more layers, that contain paths, compound paths, groups of paths, and/or layers, and I can choose to place new paths at the top or bottom of any layer (or inside a clipping path); Graphite just calls every path a "layer" and this becomes very unwieldy within a few seconds of drawing shapes.
skavi 2y ago
Is Electron really so different in your experience than a PWA? Personally, I always try to use a PWA when the app is otherwise offered via Electron. If it’s going to depend on a browser engine, it may as well be the one I already have open and update regularly.

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adastra22 2y ago

What UI crate are you using for the GUI?

Keavon 2y ago
Right now, it's a custom HTML/CSS/TypeScript component system using Svelte built to minimize bloat. But since Graphite is a data-driven graphics app and render engine, we are planning to gradually rewrite our UI components as Graphite documents— allowing us to design the editor's UI within its own editor UI. Once that happens, we can probably drop the web dependencies— although we've taken pains to ensure our current web dependencies are very lightweight and performant. All the slow parts of Graphite are due to backend engineering shortcuts we've taken to enable forward progress, and those are stopgaps that are actively being worked on to be rebuilt into proper, high-performance systems.
- airstrike 2y ago
  Have you considered using Iced? It can be hard to figure out at first but it's blazing fast, cross-platform and can compile to WASM. It's also _beautifully_ designed. Importantly, it's both "just Rust" and "very Rust". You can stay on the yellow brick road and kinda just get the app out there with incredible multi-threaded CPU + GPU rendering performance from the outset... or dig deeper and go into advanced stuff. Per the docs, it "leverages Rust to its full extent: ownership, borrowing, lifetimes, futures, streams, first-class functions"... it's just up to you how much of that you want to use The documentation is admittedly WIP but if you need help, the Discord server is very helpful. I'm there virtually 24/7 and happy to answer any questions The repo is at https://github.com/iced-rs/iced https://github.com/iced-rs/iced -- check out the readme for two complex apps recently built. It's fully themeable so you can make apps look exactly as you want them to (which is a downside for those looking for more native widgets)
  - Keavon 2y ago
    It was a top contender when I was picking a GUI solution but it didn't meet the cut. Remember that this was 3.5 years ago. The decision to go with HTML/CSS was undoubtedly the right one and it'll continue to treat us well for the foreseeable future. But we are beginning to rewrite certain areas, like the node graph, in our own render stack because this streamlines the code best. And other widgets like histograms, color scopes, etc. will continue to be built with our own renderer. And then at some point, it will start making sense to begin gradually replacing other parts of our UI with the regular widgets like buttons and checkboxes with that system. Doing so will help us simplify things and make them more user-customizable, so plugin authors can affect the UI, etc.

bangaladore 2y ago

I had to re-read your intro paragraph a few times to understand what this is supposed to be. I read it as a replacement for Blender, but upon testing it I was confused as everything was 2D and looks like Photoshop. But no, you meant the next Photoshop, while referencing Blender as a popular open source version of closed-source 3D modeling/rendering software? Is that right?

Keavon 2y ago
Upon rereading that paragraph, I suppose I didn't write that as clearly as I'd meant to. Blender is darn near perfect and there'd be no reason to replace it. So yes, as you figured out, I'm referring to becoming a second Blender but this time in the 2D realm: a generalist tool that uses actual innovation to catch up and then surpass its commercial competitors.
- crabmusket 2y ago
  Graphite is to Photoshop as Blender is to 3DS Max?
  - Keavon 2y ago
    Roughly speaking, that's the plan, with next year's roadmap focused on raster (image and raw photo) editing. Currently, Illustrator would be the more appropriate comparison instead of Photoshop, because vector editing is the primary feature set we've built so far.
  - timeon 2y ago
    Reminds me more Affinity Designer than Photoshop. Since it is also for vectors. In Adobe land you need two apps for this. (Well actually three - omnipresent Creative-Cloud eating the resources in background.)
- germandiago 2y ago
  Good luck, you are going to need it.
2y ago

mightyham 2y ago

Congrats on releasing such a complex tool, that's a big achievement. Someday, I'd like to try my hand at making my own vector graphics tool that contains a constraint solver. I am just an amateur when it comes to graphic design, but I often find Inkscape incredibly difficult to use. Certain shapes take bizarre combinations of commands to create and once a design is finished it can be hard to make adjustments. I find it much easier to make 2D designs as a fusion 360 sketches because constraining a bunch of lines and curves then playing with measurements is significantly more intuitive and interactive. Also maybe a tool like this already exists and I'm just not aware of it.

Keavon 2y ago
Definitely! And in fact, that is on our [roadmap](https://graphite.rs/features/#:~:text=CAD%2Dlike%20constraint%20relationships https://graphite.rs/features/#:~:text=CAD%2Dlike%20constrain...). Maybe you could get involved instead of making something separate.
- mightyham 2y ago
  Awesome! If I ever find the time, I will definitely look into contributing.
- kakkun 2y ago
  I'm really looking forward to that. It's something I tried to tackle but unfortunately had to give up on.
WillAdams 2y ago
The closest thing would be Solvespace --- might want to look at Dune3D.
- mightyham 2y ago
  Those are both 3D CAD programs though, and almost all CAD software supports 2D parametric sketching. I mostly just find strange though that such a ubiquitous feature in CAD, which allows for fast creation and manipulation of 2D shapes, is missing from every vector graphics tool I've used.

senectus1 2y ago

this looks really promising. I'm missing the old days of PSP to dr up some image for meme fun etc. This looks like it'd do the job.

bufferoverflow 2y ago

The appeal of Blender for me is not just the open-sourceness, but also the fact that everything in it is programmable. Any action you can do via UI, you can do by calling some Python method. Why create a new project instead of advancing InkScape though?

Keavon 2y ago
Graphite is built to be a programmatic data processing pipeline that takes the form of a render engine and WYSIWYG editor. You'll be able to write custom code for every part of the system. And because it's time for a fresh start. Sometimes you can't turn around a heavy ship, and that ship doesn't want to be turned around. It's easy to write a sentence like that, but once you actually think about it, how does an outsider with a good idea and a capability to execute on it somehow approach an existing project and decide to "take it over"? That would be neither viable nor would it yield a desirable outcome. We're building something fundamentally different from Inkscape that just so happens to eclipse it.
- lionkor 2y ago
  Absolutely - as with so many large open source projects, the maintainers and community are (rightfully) going to be sceptical of any newcomers. This leaves only three options: 1. start contributing to the project slowly, try to get into their ranks, participate in conversation, and hope that you share the same vision 2. fork it and learn the codebase by yourself 3. write your own Out of those, given the obviously conscious choice to go with Rust, and the ambitious goals, the third option is the only one that makes sense.
  - Keavon 2y ago
    Exactly! The only thing harder than making something so ambitious would be doing it in a huge legacy codebase with an existing leadership team fighting against someone vying to rock the boat. Being new is an opportunity, not a flaw. It means there's a lot of work to do, but that's tractable with the right organization structure that I think we've successfully managed to build— and it's something other projects really struggle with, so starting fresh in that respect also avoids problems from cultural elements that could very well be the blame for the inadequacies of those existing projects.

emmanueloga_ 2y ago

Wow this looks fantastic! Good open-source tools for design are so necessary [1]. You should probably add Graphite to this list [2]. I'll definitely try Graphite and follow its progress. Good luck! -- 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lthVYUB8JLs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lthVYUB8JLs 2: https://github.com/KenneyNL/Adobe-Alternatives https://github.com/KenneyNL/Adobe-Alternatives

devsda 2y ago
Adding to the above, in a way this can also be self hosted and is a candidate for the awesome selfhosted list [1]. 1. https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted https://github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted
- Keavon 2y ago
  It looks like that list tends more towards home-server self-hosted SaaS kinds of software rather than desktop apps. With our upcoming desktop app, and the fact that you can install it right now as a PWA, there's really no benefit from self-hosting. Your data is already client-side, so there's nothing for the server to do besides act as a CDN and send some tiny static assets. Unless people are going somewhere without internet, there's really no point in self-hosting the static files instead of using our CDN. Since we don't even have a server backend (except for a proxy to the Google Fonts API which we need to keep our API key private).
  - devsda 2y ago
    I (mis?)understood one of the features for 1.0 "Cloud document storage" as some sort of custom storage server, webdav or other remote filesystem support. If there's no plan for that or if its limited to usual suspects like GDrive, Dropbox etc., then I guess there's not much benefit to selfhosting.
    - Keavon 2y ago
      That's all far-future stuff that will let us continue to grow towards our larger ambitions further down the roadmap with a revenue stream that isn't purely dependent upon donations, which isn't sustainable on its own. It will always be a purely separate value-add that's not shoved down the throat of users— a subset of users will find that helpful and pay for the storage and most users won't care and won't be bothered about it. But we don't have any of that yet, and won't for a while.

nassimm 2y ago

Looks good! I'm not too much into graphics these days, but when I was I would've loved that.

ChadNauseam 2y ago

Wow, cool! I think I remember a post years ago about this project. IIRC you did a thesis in something to do with simulating brush strokes? Anyway, congrats on releasing this, super impressive to have worked on this for so long and come out with something that looks so good. (And it's awesome that you're looking into using Vello too.)

Keavon 2y ago
You remember correctly! Here's that thesis code <https://github.com/Keavon/Brush-Nodes https://github.com/Keavon/Brush-Nodes>. You can ignore the readme since it doesn't talk about brushes and open the GitHub Pages site (or, I can just link it here: <https://keavon.github.io/Brush-Nodes/ https://keavon.github.io/Brush-Nodes/>). Then press Ctrl+1, Ctrl+2, Ctrl+3, or Ctrl+4 and reload the page after each. Be patient as it takes a couple seconds to load the page once a demo is chosen. That'll load the four brush demos: - Ctrl+1: dotted stamp roller - Ctrl+2: bristle brush - Ctrl+3: diluted ink - Ctrl+4: ragged solid ink brush This concept will be reimplemented in Graphite eventually. Maybe as a GSoC project. The actual thesis write-up is here <https://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/2653/ https://digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/theses/2653/> in case you're really interested for some reason.

dzaima 2y ago

Oh cool! I've had a very unfinished unpublished SVG editor from a couple years ago with blender-ish controls that I started cleaning up a couple days ago; guess I don't need to anymore. Here are some things in mine that I've found useful but don't see here (/ might have missed) and could be food for thought (presumably some of these are just NYI but noting them regardless): [edit: a couple of these things are already noted at https://github.com/GraphiteEditor/Graphite/issues/1870 https://github.com/GraphiteEditor/Graphite/issues/1870] - shift+G/R/S for setting handle mode (bent, colinear, and colinear+equidistant respectively) works out quite intuitively; mode can be displayed as a different icon on the point (square for bent, rectangle aligned to angle for colinear, and circle for equidistant is what I use; circle is somewhat questionable but my handles have arrow tips) - while holding just a handle, set the rotation/scale anchor point to its point - allow both rotate and scale at the same time (maybe never useful but I still did it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) - while rotating/scaling, some shortcut for setting the anchor point (esp. snapped to an element representing the rotational center of a symmetric design) - middle-mouse-dragging while holding an element should ignore the delta mouse movement during the movement - I draw visual indicators of the current r/g/s accumulated action (g: a line from the starting mouse position in the canvas to where it'd be dragged to; s: line from the anchor point through the current and original mouse position with different colors (i.e. the ratio of the color lengths is the ratio of scaling); r: lines from the anchor to original & current mouse position, with an arc in between (very busy-looking, don't quite like it)) - some actions - cut a path into two (a thing I don't have but have wanted is drag-selecting to cut into three), snapping to existing points if near enough; and another to join paths if two end-points are selected; and select all linked to current selection

Keavon 2y ago
Thanks, those are really useful! Would you mind copy and pasting those into a comment in https://github.com/GraphiteEditor/Graphite/issues/1870 https://github.com/GraphiteEditor/Graphite/issues/1870 to help us keep track of those suggestions? I'd like to revisit them again.

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wg0 2y ago

This is amazing. I love Inskcapke but I think this tool is too good. It makes me very excited to see tools that are built as web apps because more gravity on web means more capabilities for the web platform which is more open and accessible. Rust is great - amazing. I presume it is compiled to Web Assembly. I'm just wondering how and why these three passionate gifted individuals didn't go Round A, Round B Investor funding, post valuation SAFE, Press briefing route? Been thinking a lot about it lately when I see tons of AI wrappers, open weight fine tuned packaged models and everything in between. Probably passion can't be priced? Happiness is not valuation?

jokethrowaway 2y ago
You won't get funding for a vector editor. Re: open weight models Most of the innovation happens within companies who use OSS to either appeal to developers or to destroy potential competitors (think Meta spending a fraction of its ad revenue just to ruin the market for OpenAI / Microsoft) Some individuals get grants from VCs who want to make a name in AI for themselves for the cost of peanuts (eg. a16z sponsors some models) At the same time, for wealthy tech people with skills and a well paid job (think 300-500) raising capital is not always an attractive proposition. You'll likely have a lower salary when doing your own startup and if it turns out your open model can't make enough money you'll just have a bunch of worthless equity and 1-2 years of high stress / pressure.
- wg0 2y ago
  Figma comes to mind. But yes, your rest of the analysis follows on the dot and makes perfect sense.
- ChadNauseam 2y ago
  You could totally get funding for a vector editor. A friend of mine got funding for a node-based video editor.
crabmusket 2y ago
> I'm just wondering how and why these three passionate gifted individuals didn't go Round A, Round B Investor funding, post valuation SAFE, Press briefing route? Maybe they wanted to work for themselves, not for a VC?

martin_henk 2y ago

Wow! That's something really useful and awesome. Shame on Adobe while having so much resources not pushing more to build a diverse eco system of creative apps like Graphite

revskill 2y ago

Love the design.

android521 2y ago

this is cool.great job.

qwertox 2y ago

This is the kind of stuff I love to see at the top of HN, that application looks absolutely professional. When searching for "scripting" on the pages, I don't see any scripting support. Are there plans to integrate it? Also some kind of API?

Keavon 2y ago
Thanks! No support for custom scripts yet. But the whole concept is that we're basically building a WYSIWYG editor on top of a node-based compositor on top of a visual programming language (so that's three products in one, lots of work ahead for us!). The result is that the whole thing is a programmatic data pipeline and you'll be able to write custom scripts in both node and code form, then compose them into reusable pieces and pipelines. But since we're building three products in one, we have only been able to focus on the parts that matter most to get things working. Your request hasn't yet been one of those, but worry not, that's very much a core feature.
- WillAdams 2y ago
  Is it possible to draw a Bézier curve, then decompose it in the Node Editor to a set of numeric nodes which input into a Bézier node? I couldn't figure out how to do that (mentioned it elsethread).
  - Keavon 2y ago
    You could ask that in our Discord and we can give more advanced guidance, but that isn't something we specifically have nodes for yet. We are building a spreadsheet view for working with all the data in numeric form, and once we have that plus some nodes for interacting with the spreadsheet data, your use case will become more naturally represented.
    - WillAdams 2y ago
      This is a usage model which I would advocate for --- the ability to record series of actions and then edit them made using WordBASIC to automate Microsoft Word far more accessible/discoverable for me.

eternityforest 2y ago

Love it! I've never liked how 2D graphics currently involves so many separate programs and forces you into a feed forward pipeline workflow.

lionkor 2y ago

What a fantastic UX. You guys can really be very proud. Between this and Zed there are already two apps that can replace everyday apps for me. I wish I could do this kind of Rust code in my day job.

OhNoNotAgain_99 2y ago

Why not extend blender, then it becomes so much more powerfull. ea 3d print, animate, render, use for vfx in videos

virtualritz 2y ago

I opened a medium complex SVG and the app became unresponsive beyond useable. After scaling it down by manually entering the scale values I could not find the SVG any more (the Align... buttons in the top bar are always grayed out/not implemented yet, it seems). Every update (even moving the canvas around takes 1-2 secs on my laptop. TLDR; looks like this is redrawing everything every time which makes it useable only for very simple projects atm, unless I miss sth. I.e. needs caching of vectors as bitmaps/textures of some sort. Also doesn't seem to support OpenEXRs yet? They won't show in the file browser. Screenshots look great and I love the node editor's mapping to the layer stack. But as always with Graphite it's still unclear to me how many of the screenshots show actual functinality and how many are mockups or the functionality behind some UI elements is simply not implemented yet.

Vox_Leone 2y ago

So easy, so nice. Beautiful work, really amazing. Congratulations and thank you.

WillAdams 2y ago

This is almost exactly the tool I have wanted for a long while. The one thing is when something is drawn in the interactive UI, rather than becoming a single node which cannot be decomposed/worked with via sub-elements, it should become (or there should be an option for) "ungrouping" it to an equivalent set of nodes/values --- if this capability is present, I couldn't figure it out, and I'd be glad to know of it.

WillAdams 2y ago
See answer at: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41862107 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41862107
Keavon 2y ago
Feel free to drop by our Discord and go into more detail about this. I think we may need to discuss it for me to understand exactly what you're describing.

kranke155 2y ago

This is incredible. Thank you for this. The Adobe suite is a bunch of bugs stuck together for the benefit of no one in particular, at this point. Hopefully with time and donations this can disrupt the market as Blender did in 3D.

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FrustratedMonky 2y ago

Is there any dependencies that would not allow this to be compiled to WASM? I just think sometimes when I see cool apps like this, it seems like there could be a new wave of cool web/phone apps using RUST/WASM. Something about these Rust examples just seem snappier, sharper.

hucker 2y ago
You're in luck, this seems to _only_ support WASM in the browser for the time being. > Graphite's code architecture is structured to deliver native performance for your graphically intensive workloads on desktop platforms and very low overhead on the web thanks to WebAssembly and WebGPU

bethemoly 2y ago

This sounds like a big project—congrats on releasing it! Just curious, as a business other than a hobby, do you have enough resources to see it through?

Keavon 2y ago
Everything we do is bootstrapped through donations and volunteer development time. When our main other core contributor graduates in a year, we'll need the funds to hire him, so we will be pushing that donation angle more in the coming year as well as applying for grants. I personally would like to be paid eventually, but I'm well-equipped to keep at this for a while before finances become a problem in my life. I can be not paid, but can't pay others. As a project, we have longer-term business plans that let us stay sustainable and independent and not wholly dependent upon donations: a combination of asset store payment processing, cloud document storage, and render farm services for people who wish to opt into paying for those value-adds that are otherwise not part of the main product. A decade from now, I'd like to actually recoup my investment, but I don't want to sell out to investors.
- joelignaatius 2y ago
  Yours is the sort of project where if I had a boatload of money I'd just find it no strings attached through your project forecast. This would be such an excellent tool for artists with light pen integration.

TechSquidTV 2y ago

Immediately looking at the screenshot and I'm impressed. No further review I can tell this is different. I've always said we need more "Blender"-like projects out there to take on Adobe. I see you potentially have plans to take on other apps as well. Following and hoping for your success.

deskr 2y ago

This is one of the more interesting projects I've seen for a while. Excellent landing page by the way.

Keavon 2y ago
Thanks! Do you mean the website home page, or the app's welcome screen?
- deskr 2y ago
  I was referring to the link posted to HN: https://graphite.rs/ https://graphite.rs/

aDyslecticCrow 2y ago

This looks awesome! It looks like a decent Illustrator alternative with its own identity. Even the basics are more competent than Inkscape.

deskr 2y ago

Some suggestions: I was doing something and then suddently I got a red error message, "The document cannot be rendered in it current state", instructing me to click the Node Graph button. 1. I couldn't find that button. Perhaps show a picture of it or just embed it in the error message. 2. Make the error text selectable. 3. Let me report the bug straight from the app?

noisy_boy 2y ago
I got the same error when I was doing the tutorial (which went quite well) and was doing the steps for circular repeat of the sun rays. Pressing Ctrl-Z undid practically all the work instead of just the last wrong change (not sure what caused it).
- Keavon 2y ago
  Ah yes, good find: the stroke node can only apply to vector data, but when you use the Circular Repeat node, it now produces group data (as it should have always done). The fix is to put the Stroke node first to avoid the type error. I'll see what I can do to update the tutorial with that info, and to try to make the Stroke node more robust so it could apply to all group elements. I'm surprised that Ctrl+Z undid more than one step, I've never seen that before. If you get the chance to reproduce that and write up the steps, please file an issue since we'd like to take a look into that.
  - noisy_boy 2y ago
    I can try to reproduce but don't want to go through all the steps every time in case things go wrong again. Is there a savepoint/export/import kind of feature? I think a tutorial regarding basics such as how to find shortcuts, do's/dont's for new beginners might help.
    - Keavon 2y ago
      You can save the document and reopen it later just like in any other program. You might not be able to reproduce the graph validity error anymore because we fixed the specific bug you encountered. The input hints bar at the bottom shows what buttons you can press in any context, but that's a good idea to mention it in upcoming tutorials because I've noticed that users tend to ignore it. Hover tooltips and the app menu also both display shortcuts, which are worth pointing out in future tutorials as well. Thanks for that suggestion.

short_sells_poo 2y ago

I'm so glad this is a genuine product that stands by it's own merit rather than trying to sell itself on the basis of being written in Rust. I feel too many products that use some fancy new tech in development make that aspect part of the sales pitch. It is certainly interesting for us here, but the users of the tool will only care about the technical side to the degree that the tool is stable, performant and continues to be developed. I'm not an illustrator so I can't add much beyond that, but I'm rooting for the devs to turn it into a success!

zdw 2y ago

Is there a comparison/contrast with Krita anywhere?

Keavon 2y ago
Krita is a painting application. Graphite is a vector editing application. There is currently no overlap between the two apps. We intend to eventually build a painting application workflow, but that isn't something we're focused on yet and we'll likely prioritize other area first because Krita is a competent tool for painting already, which digital artist should use for that workflow until we someday have the time to build something even better.

anthk 2y ago

Similarly, there's Kons-9 for 3D procedural imaging/modelling written in Common Lisp.

cozzyd 2y ago

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I find it somewhat non-intuitive that each stroke / circle / box is automatically its own layer, rather than the layers being explicit, as they are in Inkscape. That makes the layers essentially useless for me.

handity 2y ago

Please make First and Last name optional in your email signup form, there's no reason for that to be mandatory.

Keavon 2y ago
It's not mandatory, you can enter any name you wish.

fwip 2y ago

Very cool! One comment, one question. 1) panning the node graph of the leaves demo seemed slow / laggy on my macbook pro in chrome, which gave an initial low-quality feeling - moving nodes was nice and responsive. 2) Given that this is written in Rust (compiled), is it on the roadmap to 'export' the parameterized designs into some callable library code? e.g: a game engine that calls "leaves = generate_texture("changing_leaves.graphite", percentage=0.2)"? It would be cool to keep that configurability even once you leave the editor - basically, splitting the node-graph renderer out as its own library that you can call programmatically.

Keavon 2y ago
1. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41854076 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41854076 2. Yes, you got it! That's very much something we are building towards, and you hit it on the nail in describing how that will work and the utility it will provide to people across many industries from game dev to backend services.
- fwip 2y ago
  Awesome! Composable tools rule.

lavela 2y ago

Could you see this having a CAD-like mode? I really see a gap there in terms of open-source projects. I see that you have constraints on your roadmap, but that's not what I mean. I am specifically referring to the 2D mode of Vectorworks, which is, special modules aside, really just a vector editor with support for hairlines and representational line styling (so lines don't have a 'real' thickness, but you set semantical pen thickness). The main feature here is more about the path drawing workflow, which enables you to efficiently work with exact measurements. E.g. to draw a line you'd click to start, hover on the desired angle, enter number, (optionally press tab, enter exact angle,) click. A rectangle, say, would have additional parameters to access via tab. So thinking about it, it in fact it is kind of a restraints system, but it only applies to the current drawing process and has the absolute minimum needed key presses/actions as possible, because you need to do this a lot (Sketchup works simlar, too) I could see myself working on something like that, but didn't see anything pointing in that direction in your open tasks, so I am wondering if that would be in scope for graphite.

Keavon 2y ago
That's all definitely in-scope. If you'd be motivated to contribute it, there should also be nothing that's really blocking it right now if you're willing to dive into the implementation details. Please join our Discord and let's talk about it more.

conaclos 2y ago

Does Graphite support baseline grids as Scribus does?