3 ms·

Drives in particular. Let them solder the memory if they absolutely have to, but exposing even an empty NVMe slot should be standard for laptops. Unfortunately,

Drives in particular. Let them solder the memory if they absolutely have to, but exposing even an empty NVMe slot should be standard for laptops. Unfortunately, Apple makes a pretty penny off the storage surcharge so I wouldn't really anticipate that anytime soon.

franciscop 2y ago
They no longer even have a "memory" chip anymore, it's all part of the same SOC AFAIK, so they cannot "solder" it.
- angoragoats 2y ago
  The RAM is still very much bog-standard DDR4/DDR5 chips, soldered on a PCB right next to the CPU. Here's an example pic of an M3 motherboard. The CPU/GPU is under the metal piece with the Apple logo on it, and the memory is the two rectangular chips immediately above that. https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/M3-Macs.jpg https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/M3-Macs....
- delfinom 2y ago
  You are thinking of the iPhones. All the ARM Macs are separate memory chips.
loopdoend 2y ago
I will accept the trade off for the performance boost tbh.
- lucb1e 2y ago
  What performance boost? As in, same software running for comparison on the hardware of interest, one soldered and the other not. I never heard that soldering your SSD on makes it faster...
  - jsheard 2y ago
    It doesn't, Apples SSD performance is fine but unremarkable. Their current machines will do around ~6GB/sec read and ~5GB/sec write, which isn't even at the limit of socketed PCIe4 NVMe drives, nevermind the bleeding edge PCIe5 drives which can do up to ~14GB/sec read and ~12GB/sec write (albeit with excessive heat and power consumption for a laptop). Soldering the RAM has legitimate performance benefits, but soldering the SSD is just to save space and upsell overpriced upgrades.
    - throwaway48476 2y ago
      It's crazy that some people think it's apple so it must be special and better not realizing NVMe is a industry standard.
  - loopdoend 2y ago
    Sorry I was referring to the boost you get from having ram integrated into the chip vis-à-vis apple’s M-line of processors. Having replaceable ram is not really a marketable feature these days.
    - angoragoats 2y ago
      This might be nitpicking but 1) the ram is not integrated into the chip, per se, it's still discrete and soldered on a PCB right next to the CPU, and 2) the increased speed comes from additional memory channels built into the M-series CPUs, not necessarily the fact that the memory is closer to the CPU. It is true that it's not currently feasible to have socketed memory in a laptop offering 8+ memory channels to enable 200GB/sec+ bandwidth, but you can absolutely get the same (or greater!) memory speeds as an M-series CPU from an x86 desktop workstation. If Intel/AMD wanted to prioritize memory bandwidth, they could probably work with JEDEC or another industry org to develop a new standard for socketed memory with multiple channels per socket, to enable the kind of speeds that Apple offers. The fact that they haven't (to my knowledge) indicates to me that they don't see it as a big enough priority or benefit.
      - 2y ago
AlexandrB 2y ago
Even when Apple laptops had removable solid state storage, it used a non-standard connector[1]. Very consumer and repair hostile. While OWC still made thirds party drives for these[2], few (no?) other companies did. [1] https://beetstech.com/blog/apple-proprietary-ssd-ultimate-guide-to-specs-and-upgrades#hdr-5 https://beetstech.com/blog/apple-proprietary-ssd-ultimate-gu... [2] https://www.owc.com/solutions/aura-n2 https://www.owc.com/solutions/aura-n2

franciscop 2y ago

They no longer even have a "memory" chip anymore, it's all part of the same SOC AFAIK, so they cannot "solder" it.

angoragoats 2y ago
The RAM is still very much bog-standard DDR4/DDR5 chips, soldered on a PCB right next to the CPU. Here's an example pic of an M3 motherboard. The CPU/GPU is under the metal piece with the Apple logo on it, and the memory is the two rectangular chips immediately above that. https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/M3-Macs.jpg https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/M3-Macs....
delfinom 2y ago
You are thinking of the iPhones. All the ARM Macs are separate memory chips.

loopdoend 2y ago

I will accept the trade off for the performance boost tbh.

lucb1e 2y ago
What performance boost? As in, same software running for comparison on the hardware of interest, one soldered and the other not. I never heard that soldering your SSD on makes it faster...
- jsheard 2y ago
  It doesn't, Apples SSD performance is fine but unremarkable. Their current machines will do around ~6GB/sec read and ~5GB/sec write, which isn't even at the limit of socketed PCIe4 NVMe drives, nevermind the bleeding edge PCIe5 drives which can do up to ~14GB/sec read and ~12GB/sec write (albeit with excessive heat and power consumption for a laptop). Soldering the RAM has legitimate performance benefits, but soldering the SSD is just to save space and upsell overpriced upgrades.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    It's crazy that some people think it's apple so it must be special and better not realizing NVMe is a industry standard.
- loopdoend 2y ago
  Sorry I was referring to the boost you get from having ram integrated into the chip vis-à-vis apple’s M-line of processors. Having replaceable ram is not really a marketable feature these days.
  - angoragoats 2y ago
    This might be nitpicking but 1) the ram is not integrated into the chip, per se, it's still discrete and soldered on a PCB right next to the CPU, and 2) the increased speed comes from additional memory channels built into the M-series CPUs, not necessarily the fact that the memory is closer to the CPU. It is true that it's not currently feasible to have socketed memory in a laptop offering 8+ memory channels to enable 200GB/sec+ bandwidth, but you can absolutely get the same (or greater!) memory speeds as an M-series CPU from an x86 desktop workstation. If Intel/AMD wanted to prioritize memory bandwidth, they could probably work with JEDEC or another industry org to develop a new standard for socketed memory with multiple channels per socket, to enable the kind of speeds that Apple offers. The fact that they haven't (to my knowledge) indicates to me that they don't see it as a big enough priority or benefit.
    - 2y ago

AlexandrB 2y ago

Even when Apple laptops had removable solid state storage, it used a non-standard connector[1]. Very consumer and repair hostile. While OWC still made thirds party drives for these[2], few (no?) other companies did. [1] https://beetstech.com/blog/apple-proprietary-ssd-ultimate-guide-to-specs-and-upgrades#hdr-5 https://beetstech.com/blog/apple-proprietary-ssd-ultimate-gu... [2] https://www.owc.com/solutions/aura-n2 https://www.owc.com/solutions/aura-n2