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I find obesity a weird problem societally because literature to get people to stop being obese on a population level just kind of sucks. All we know is stuff th

I find obesity a weird problem societally because literature to get people to stop being obese on a population level just kind of sucks. All we know is stuff that doesn't really work. Shaming fat people, pointing out their fatness, or other public pressure doesn't do anything. Strict diets like keto or OMAD don't work on a population level (individuals can get great results but I'm talking enough to statistically move the needle as a population). Ozempic and other injectables seem like the best widespread treatment, but that doesn't tell us any causes.

fwip 2y ago
To the best of my knowledge, there's actually no diet that has been proven to yield long-term weight loss. (There are of course individual success cases.)
- Enginerrrd 2y ago
  There are tons of diets that have been proven to work. Getting people to adhere to them long-term is the problem.
  - watwut 2y ago
    The issue is that people able to keep doing them long term end up in hospitals diagnozed with eating disorders. As in, inability to keep them long term is biological defense of organism that does not have genetic predisposition toward anorexia.
the_gorilla 2y ago
[flagged]
- vkou 2y ago
  We tried a few decades of letting vendors feed us crap food, and it's led to an obesity explosion, maybe that's the problem. Let's give a few decades of strict control over food suppliers a try, and if that doesn't work, maybe we could look into alternatives.
  - the_gorilla 2y ago
    Why not both? Nobody wanted seatbelts until they were forced to use them, maybe we could try forcing people to eat safer food.
- kiba 2y ago
  We've tried a few decades of fat positively and just pretending that being fat isn't a personal failure, and just a symptom of society. Fat positivity? It's not really a popular position, and is in fact regarded as a loathesome movement. You think every fat kid, especially those bullied, don't want to be thin? You think shaming is going to work? That's an uphill battle, especially against the human body and the urges it generate, the causes we do not fully understand. Normal healthy humans are supposed to be able to self regulate their weight at a healthy level. I have seen at least one friend who has an atrocious diet, poor eating habit, and yet remain rail thin. If shaming did work, then it would have been implemented widely and obesity is solved. But it's not. We don't have anything that works as well as ozempic. I am all for taking responsibility, but we ought to be cognizant about the current limitations of our tools and flexible at how we would solve problems, rather than sticking to dogma or trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. For example, I found a psychological trick that enables me to work long hours. Tricks for eventually getting rid of bad food addiction(sadly, I am at it again).
  - the_gorilla 2y ago
    > If shaming did work, then it would have been implemented widely and obesity is solved. But it's not. We don't have anything that works as well as ozempic. What kind of reasoning is this? This is only true if you believe good policies always get implemented. You'll notice other countries like Japan don't require every man and child to be drugged to stop eating food, and they have a much stronger sense of shame for being an undue burden on society.
    - naniwaduni 2y ago
      It's pretty easy to believe that fat shaming would be widely implemented, since it is in fact widely implemented even without being policy.
      - the_gorilla 2y ago
        [flagged]
Teever 2y ago
We're not making movement on this because we're not calling it what it is -- an addiction. We dance around it and call it 'obesity' but the real medical cause of obesity is an addiction to unhealthy food. This is compounded by the fact that it is completely legal for people to make their food more addictive and therefore unhealthy and advertise it to addicted people with underhanded marketing techniques that take advantage of their addiction. Until we recognize this as an addiction issue that is compounded by dealers being able to operate with impunity we won't make any headway -- short of technological advancements like Ozempic that allow people to side step their addiction.
a-french-anon 2y ago
> Shaming fat people, pointing out their fatness, or other public pressure doesn't do anything. Says who? Are you implying that true societal shame is still being enforced right now, without hundreds of refuges in the form of safe spaces and social justice advocacy groups? I'm pretty sure that such shame worked pretty well in the past, and still does in countries like Japan. In the end, you'll just have to realize that the root issue you're facing is decadence, and that's there's no fighting it.

fwip 2y ago

To the best of my knowledge, there's actually no diet that has been proven to yield long-term weight loss. (There are of course individual success cases.)

Enginerrrd 2y ago
There are tons of diets that have been proven to work. Getting people to adhere to them long-term is the problem.
- watwut 2y ago
  The issue is that people able to keep doing them long term end up in hospitals diagnozed with eating disorders. As in, inability to keep them long term is biological defense of organism that does not have genetic predisposition toward anorexia.

the_gorilla 2y ago

[flagged]

vkou 2y ago
We tried a few decades of letting vendors feed us crap food, and it's led to an obesity explosion, maybe that's the problem. Let's give a few decades of strict control over food suppliers a try, and if that doesn't work, maybe we could look into alternatives.
- the_gorilla 2y ago
  Why not both? Nobody wanted seatbelts until they were forced to use them, maybe we could try forcing people to eat safer food.
kiba 2y ago
We've tried a few decades of fat positively and just pretending that being fat isn't a personal failure, and just a symptom of society. Fat positivity? It's not really a popular position, and is in fact regarded as a loathesome movement. You think every fat kid, especially those bullied, don't want to be thin? You think shaming is going to work? That's an uphill battle, especially against the human body and the urges it generate, the causes we do not fully understand. Normal healthy humans are supposed to be able to self regulate their weight at a healthy level. I have seen at least one friend who has an atrocious diet, poor eating habit, and yet remain rail thin. If shaming did work, then it would have been implemented widely and obesity is solved. But it's not. We don't have anything that works as well as ozempic. I am all for taking responsibility, but we ought to be cognizant about the current limitations of our tools and flexible at how we would solve problems, rather than sticking to dogma or trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. For example, I found a psychological trick that enables me to work long hours. Tricks for eventually getting rid of bad food addiction(sadly, I am at it again).
- the_gorilla 2y ago
  > If shaming did work, then it would have been implemented widely and obesity is solved. But it's not. We don't have anything that works as well as ozempic. What kind of reasoning is this? This is only true if you believe good policies always get implemented. You'll notice other countries like Japan don't require every man and child to be drugged to stop eating food, and they have a much stronger sense of shame for being an undue burden on society.
  - naniwaduni 2y ago
    It's pretty easy to believe that fat shaming would be widely implemented, since it is in fact widely implemented even without being policy.
    - the_gorilla 2y ago
      [flagged]

Teever 2y ago

We're not making movement on this because we're not calling it what it is -- an addiction. We dance around it and call it 'obesity' but the real medical cause of obesity is an addiction to unhealthy food. This is compounded by the fact that it is completely legal for people to make their food more addictive and therefore unhealthy and advertise it to addicted people with underhanded marketing techniques that take advantage of their addiction. Until we recognize this as an addiction issue that is compounded by dealers being able to operate with impunity we won't make any headway -- short of technological advancements like Ozempic that allow people to side step their addiction.

a-french-anon 2y ago

> Shaming fat people, pointing out their fatness, or other public pressure doesn't do anything. Says who? Are you implying that true societal shame is still being enforced right now, without hundreds of refuges in the form of safe spaces and social justice advocacy groups? I'm pretty sure that such shame worked pretty well in the past, and still does in countries like Japan. In the end, you'll just have to realize that the root issue you're facing is decadence, and that's there's no fighting it.