3 ms·

> On November 15, 2024, the Fable product will be shut down. All users will no longer be able to sign up, log in, or access files. All customer data and project

> On November 15, 2024, the Fable product will be shut down. All users will no longer be able to sign up, log in, or access files. All customer data and project files will be permanently deleted [...] > We recommend you look through your Fable files and export your projects off the platform (e.g. to mp4, gif, lottie… etc). I genuinely am at a loss for words here. Somebody sat down and decided that giving you your project sources in some form is too much work, just a GIF export will do. (For those looking to save their data: go for Lottie, it’s a bit more versatile and you can preserve vector data at least.) EDIT: the ideal way to go here would of course be open sourcing the whole thing!

tsimionescu 2y ago
Was Fable using a well-known format, or is it a proprietary format specific to the app ? If it's proprietary, would it make any sense to export it directly? Is it even a file format, or is it possible they were simply storing various pieces of data related to your project in various places in backend DBs?
- sentientslug 2y ago
  Says in the article “the Fable file format is not transferable to other platforms.”
  - webstrand 2y ago
    So export a structured dump of all relevant data and leave it up to someone else to decipher.
    - gus_massa 2y ago
      I agree. I deciphered a few weird formats, for example the raw format of an old camera, the save files of drawings in WinWord 1. It's easier if you can make a few custom small examples, for example in the drawings use only one line, then two, then tree. They were binary formats, so the trick was to use an hex editor and look at them for a long time and make a few guess. I never deciphered them 100%, but I had enough info to read the files I care about and create new files. Sometimes you get a riff format and a big chunk of the guesswork is solved. And most modern formats are just a bunch of xml files inside a tar.gz , so now the first step is to change the extension to .zip and cross your fingers.
    - from-nibly 2y ago
      Do you know what's less work and less legally fraught? Doing nothing.
invaderzirp 2y ago
This shouldn't be surprising anymore. This has happened every week since 2010. This is the VC cycle, and it happens over and over and over and over and over again. In fact, I'm sure there's some flashy new thing on the front page right now that will have its own corresponding "goodbye" thread in 2-10 years, and everyone will get screwed by that, too. We can lament the current state of affairs, but let's not pretend it's abnormal.
- jwr 2y ago
  I run a solo bootstrapped SaaS. When people sometimes ask me whether I think this is a stable business, I tell them that with a VC-funded company, it's almost certain that there will be an outcome in several years that will not be good for customers. VC-funded companies go bankrupt, get acqui-hired, or get strategically acquired most of the time, and all these outcomes are bad for customers. The only outcome which is slightly less negative is going public, but very few companies reach that stage, and even then you get endless feature creep and progressive ensh*ttification (like with Dropbox, for example). Self-funded sustainable businesses can be much more stable in the long term.
  - ignoramous 2y ago
    > Self-funded sustainable businesses can be much more stable in the long term. Can even grow at a progressive pace by expanding into adjacent segments: https://apenwarr.ca/log/20211024 https://apenwarr.ca/log/20211024
  - MichaelZuo 2y ago
    Wouldn’t the low credibility VCs, who don’t care about customers being thrown under the bus, be displaced by higher credibility VCs over time?
    - pc86 2y ago
      Why? Most people (as in 99.9%) don't give a shit about venture capital and don't follow it at all. I would guess that most people (as in >50%) couldn't even give you a half-way accurate definition of it. If you're buying enterprise software you're more likely to know that VC exists but you're not any more likely to care about it. None of the people writing 5-7 figure enterprise software checks are tracking which VCs are at which firm when, and who invested in what, and what company had a negative client impact when, and all that. And even if you were tracking it what are the odds that you'll need the same software 5 or 10 years later when it might be relevant to the decision? Things evolve based on evolutionary pressures only and the VC world is too disconnected from its negative impacts to feel any pressure from them. Put another way, credibility (from the standpoint of the customer) does not positively or negatively impact a VC in any way.
next_xibalba 2y ago
I think it says more about us that we are at a loss for words or shocked that a startup goes under and its unwinding is messy. It is neither a big deal, nor is it particularly unethical that this should happen. Caveat emptor. This type of reaction should be reserved for real catastrophes like a cancer diagnosis, a war, the death of a loved one, etc. Have we all become so fragile that something as minor as a startup with a small number of users shutting down causes us shock and disgust?
- Ensorceled 2y ago
  This is a website full of startup people, a startup going under with a messy shutdown is something I would expect this audience to be upset about. > This type of reaction should be reserved for real catastrophes like a cancer diagnosis, a war, the death of a loved one, etc. Why are you on here lecturing us? Shouldn't you be out saving the world or something important? Or at least lecturing politicians?

tsimionescu 2y ago

Was Fable using a well-known format, or is it a proprietary format specific to the app ? If it's proprietary, would it make any sense to export it directly? Is it even a file format, or is it possible they were simply storing various pieces of data related to your project in various places in backend DBs?

sentientslug 2y ago
Says in the article “the Fable file format is not transferable to other platforms.”
- webstrand 2y ago
  So export a structured dump of all relevant data and leave it up to someone else to decipher.
  - gus_massa 2y ago
    I agree. I deciphered a few weird formats, for example the raw format of an old camera, the save files of drawings in WinWord 1. It's easier if you can make a few custom small examples, for example in the drawings use only one line, then two, then tree. They were binary formats, so the trick was to use an hex editor and look at them for a long time and make a few guess. I never deciphered them 100%, but I had enough info to read the files I care about and create new files. Sometimes you get a riff format and a big chunk of the guesswork is solved. And most modern formats are just a bunch of xml files inside a tar.gz , so now the first step is to change the extension to .zip and cross your fingers.
  - from-nibly 2y ago
    Do you know what's less work and less legally fraught? Doing nothing.

invaderzirp 2y ago

This shouldn't be surprising anymore. This has happened every week since 2010. This is the VC cycle, and it happens over and over and over and over and over again. In fact, I'm sure there's some flashy new thing on the front page right now that will have its own corresponding "goodbye" thread in 2-10 years, and everyone will get screwed by that, too. We can lament the current state of affairs, but let's not pretend it's abnormal.

jwr 2y ago
I run a solo bootstrapped SaaS. When people sometimes ask me whether I think this is a stable business, I tell them that with a VC-funded company, it's almost certain that there will be an outcome in several years that will not be good for customers. VC-funded companies go bankrupt, get acqui-hired, or get strategically acquired most of the time, and all these outcomes are bad for customers. The only outcome which is slightly less negative is going public, but very few companies reach that stage, and even then you get endless feature creep and progressive ensh*ttification (like with Dropbox, for example). Self-funded sustainable businesses can be much more stable in the long term.
- ignoramous 2y ago
  > Self-funded sustainable businesses can be much more stable in the long term. Can even grow at a progressive pace by expanding into adjacent segments: https://apenwarr.ca/log/20211024 https://apenwarr.ca/log/20211024
- MichaelZuo 2y ago
  Wouldn’t the low credibility VCs, who don’t care about customers being thrown under the bus, be displaced by higher credibility VCs over time?
  - pc86 2y ago
    Why? Most people (as in 99.9%) don't give a shit about venture capital and don't follow it at all. I would guess that most people (as in >50%) couldn't even give you a half-way accurate definition of it. If you're buying enterprise software you're more likely to know that VC exists but you're not any more likely to care about it. None of the people writing 5-7 figure enterprise software checks are tracking which VCs are at which firm when, and who invested in what, and what company had a negative client impact when, and all that. And even if you were tracking it what are the odds that you'll need the same software 5 or 10 years later when it might be relevant to the decision? Things evolve based on evolutionary pressures only and the VC world is too disconnected from its negative impacts to feel any pressure from them. Put another way, credibility (from the standpoint of the customer) does not positively or negatively impact a VC in any way.

next_xibalba 2y ago

I think it says more about us that we are at a loss for words or shocked that a startup goes under and its unwinding is messy. It is neither a big deal, nor is it particularly unethical that this should happen. Caveat emptor. This type of reaction should be reserved for real catastrophes like a cancer diagnosis, a war, the death of a loved one, etc. Have we all become so fragile that something as minor as a startup with a small number of users shutting down causes us shock and disgust?

Ensorceled 2y ago
This is a website full of startup people, a startup going under with a messy shutdown is something I would expect this audience to be upset about. > This type of reaction should be reserved for real catastrophes like a cancer diagnosis, a war, the death of a loved one, etc. Why are you on here lecturing us? Shouldn't you be out saving the world or something important? Or at least lecturing politicians?