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It should be noted that this ruling has numerous problems from a scientific point of view, as does the NLP report that was relied on. I'm not opposed to valida
by LocalPCGuy 2y ago
It should be noted that this ruling has numerous problems from a scientific point of view, as does the NLP report that was relied on.
I'm not opposed to validating safety of anything we're doing at a significant amount like this, but I remain heavily skeptical of this case and it's conclusions. And I have concerns about the knee-jerk reactions being seen already in some communities. I know some (if not a lot) of the confusion is the media headlines, but the ruling does seem to lend itself to being reported with significant bias and misrepresentations.
> Chen, in his ruling, leans heavily on the NTP report. Even though the report points to evidence of harm only at levels more than double the 0.7 mg/L found in U.S. tap water
> Some critics have said that the research behind these conclusions is riddled with problems. ...
> “The bottom line,” said Tomar, “is that the overwhelming majority of those studies had either significant flaws or were, frankly, just not looked at through a critical eye.”
Contradicting studies:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36214232/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36214232/
> Exposure to fluoridated water during the first 5 y of life was not associated with altered measures of child emotional and behavioral development and executive functioning.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935121014821 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001393512...
> In boys, positive associations were observed between MUFcr and scores in cognitive domains at the age of 4. These findings are inconsistent with those from some previous studies and indicate the need for other population-based studies to confirm or overturn these results at low levels of F in CDW.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7261729/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7261729/
> In conclusion, based on the totality of currently available scientific evidence, the present review does not support the presumption that fluoride should be assessed as a human developmental neurotoxicant at the current exposure levels in Europe.
> ... the experimental evidence suggests that current exposure to fluoride, even for individuals with relatively high fluoride intake, is clearly below levels that lead to adverse effects in vitro or in animals.
> ... The discrepancy between experimental and epidemiological evidence may be reconciled with deficiencies inherent in most epidemiological studies
- kaibee 2y agoDo kids consume tap-water equally? I don't know how to check this. I'd imagine one family that cooks a lot of meals where you're just cooking in tap-water (spaghetti, etc), could end up having a lot more fluoride than a family that eats more like, rice, which absorbs a lot more water? Also dishes that involve longer cooking times where you end up reducing the tap-water more? At a population level, you might end up with increased variance in the same bounds?
- LocalPCGuy 2y agoIn general, studies I've looked at show that even with unequal consumption, even those in the "high consumption" (and therefore probably higher fluoride ingestion) don't lead to what would be considered an excessive amount over the recommended exposure limits. Not saying it couldn't happen of course, there are outliers. Overall exposure should be considered for children. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2697936/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2697936/ > The probability of exceeding the UL of 7 mg fluoride per day via a normal diet was estimated to be very low in the Belgian adult population. Note: it's hard to find studies like this that focus on kids and not adults, but except for the difficulty in getting accurate responses from kids, that shouldn't lead to a difference. However given that the upper level is lower in children, it's a much tighter window that could then be exceeded by other sources of fluoride like swallowed toothpaste or food supplements with fluoride. So caution is probably warranted. An Irish study found no risk of excess consumption by adults or children (excepting "misuse of toothpaste"): - https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/fluoride-in-food-drinks-and-tap-water-poses-no-risk-to-health-1.3479000 https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/fluoride-in-food-drin... - https://www.fsai.ie/publications/total-diet-study-2014-2016-assessment-of-dietary-e https://www.fsai.ie/publications/total-diet-study-2014-2016-...