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I don't know that an AI winter is bad. Frankly, I don't think society is ready for "actual" AI. It'll probably be used to entrench corporations and increase exp

I don't know that an AI winter is bad. Frankly, I don't think society is ready for "actual" AI. It'll probably be used to entrench corporations and increase exploitation if we don't fix our current problems.

namaria 2y ago
That's assuming 'real AI' is even possible. On a different note, there's an argument dating back to Hobbes' Leviathan that the State and corporations are in fact a form of AI.
- HKH2 2y ago
  If you can assume you're talking to a human when talking to an AI then it is real enough.
  - namaria 2y ago
    I strongly disagree. Chat gpt seems to be a great argument against that.
    - HKH2 2y ago
      So you get tricked into thinking it's a real person, but it's not real enough?
      - namaria 2y ago
        Don't play sophistry. It's debasing for both of us.
        HKH2 2y ago
        If an AI can pass a Turing test, does that make people stupid? I don't think that's necessarily so. Either way, I'm glad chatbots will force people to use more discernment.
        wkat4242 2y ago
        No but an LLM can pass a Turing test just because it's echoing humans that can. It's like that coder that copy pastes bits from stack overflow all day but doesn't really know what they're doing.
        HKH2 2y ago
        Sounds like a toddler.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  I think it is. I'm surprised also we need such extreme resources to do it. After all, nature can do it with 4kg of brain mass and less than 100 Watts. There must be a way we can do this in tech too. But yeah I doubt it would be a benefit for society too.
  - namaria 2y ago
    Yeah the thing is, nature can't do it with 4 kg 100 watt human brains. Nature can do it with planetary ecosystems running on supernova detritus bathed in just the right amount of star light. It took hundreds of millions of years just on brain development to get here. The same way that openai did what they did using the whole of common crawl, god knows how many phds, decades of development of basic concepts and several years of datacenters worth of compute. And they got a chatbot.
    - nomel 2y ago
      The AI is the head of that causal chain. It required all of that, including human brains, to come into existence.
- tech_ken 2y ago
  > On a different note, there's an argument dating back to Hobbes' Leviathan that the State and corporations are in fact a form of AI Woah neat I've been wondering about this myself, any reading you'd recommend?
  - namaria 2y ago
    The Cybernetic Hypothesis https://mitpress.mit.edu/9781635900927/the-cybernetic-hypothesis/ https://mitpress.mit.edu/9781635900927/the-cybernetic-hypoth... The Stack: On Software and Sovereignty https://direct.mit.edu/books/monograph/3504/The-StackOn-Software-and-Sovereignty https://direct.mit.edu/books/monograph/3504/The-StackOn-Soft... The Age of Surveillance Capitalism: The Fight for a Human Future at the New Frontier of Power https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=56791 https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=56791 Platform Capitalism https://www.wiley.com/en-in/Platform+Capitalism-p-9781509504909 https://www.wiley.com/en-in/Platform+Capitalism-p-9781509504...

namaria 2y ago

That's assuming 'real AI' is even possible. On a different note, there's an argument dating back to Hobbes' Leviathan that the State and corporations are in fact a form of AI.

HKH2 2y ago
If you can assume you're talking to a human when talking to an AI then it is real enough.
- namaria 2y ago
  I strongly disagree. Chat gpt seems to be a great argument against that.
  - HKH2 2y ago
    So you get tricked into thinking it's a real person, but it's not real enough?
    - namaria 2y ago
      Don't play sophistry. It's debasing for both of us.
      - HKH2 2y ago
        If an AI can pass a Turing test, does that make people stupid? I don't think that's necessarily so. Either way, I'm glad chatbots will force people to use more discernment.
        wkat4242 2y ago
        No but an LLM can pass a Turing test just because it's echoing humans that can. It's like that coder that copy pastes bits from stack overflow all day but doesn't really know what they're doing.
        HKH2 2y ago
        Sounds like a toddler.
wkat4242 2y ago
I think it is. I'm surprised also we need such extreme resources to do it. After all, nature can do it with 4kg of brain mass and less than 100 Watts. There must be a way we can do this in tech too. But yeah I doubt it would be a benefit for society too.
- namaria 2y ago
  Yeah the thing is, nature can't do it with 4 kg 100 watt human brains. Nature can do it with planetary ecosystems running on supernova detritus bathed in just the right amount of star light. It took hundreds of millions of years just on brain development to get here. The same way that openai did what they did using the whole of common crawl, god knows how many phds, decades of development of basic concepts and several years of datacenters worth of compute. And they got a chatbot.
  - nomel 2y ago
    The AI is the head of that causal chain. It required all of that, including human brains, to come into existence.
tech_ken 2y ago
> On a different note, there's an argument dating back to Hobbes' Leviathan that the State and corporations are in fact a form of AI Woah neat I've been wondering about this myself, any reading you'd recommend?
- namaria 2y ago
  The Cybernetic Hypothesis https://mitpress.mit.edu/9781635900927/the-cybernetic-hypothesis/ https://mitpress.mit.edu/9781635900927/the-cybernetic-hypoth... The Stack: On Software and Sovereignty https://direct.mit.edu/books/monograph/3504/The-StackOn-Software-and-Sovereignty https://direct.mit.edu/books/monograph/3504/The-StackOn-Soft... The Age of Surveillance Capitalism: The Fight for a Human Future at the New Frontier of Power https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=56791 https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/item.aspx?num=56791 Platform Capitalism https://www.wiley.com/en-in/Platform+Capitalism-p-9781509504909 https://www.wiley.com/en-in/Platform+Capitalism-p-9781509504...