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One comment about the source (chess.com): it has a conflict of interest in this topic and has a clear bias in what it does and doesn't say. They omit that the c

One comment about the source (chess.com): it has a conflict of interest in this topic and has a clear bias in what it does and doesn't say. They omit that the cheater in question is a prominent member of their own chess platform, who has been scoring first-place in high-profile sitewide tournaments [0]. IMO the most interesting question here, which this source would prefer to elide over, is whether or not this over-the-board (meatspace) cheater has also been cheating for profit on the internet platforms—something that's technically much easier to do than in a professional, arbitrated tournament setting. This is sort of an existential question for their business. Chess.com currently operates one of the two major online chess platforms. Their top public-image controversy, going back years, is whether or not their anti-computer cheating methods are effective and accurate. (This question has even made it into the Wall Street Journal [1]). Their system is a "security by obscurity" type, which both relies on cheaters not knowing how it works, and asks paying customers to trust the company's claims, without evidence, that their competitive platform is fair and fundamentally sound. I think this revelation is going to (rightly) enflame that debate—though you won't read much about it on chess.com's own blog. [0] https://www.chess.com/news/view/shevchenko-svane-win-titled-tuesday-october-8-2024 https://www.chess.com/news/view/shevchenko-svane-win-titled-... ("GMs Kirill Shevchenko and Frederik Svane are your winners for the October 8 editions of Titled Tuesday") [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33085649 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33085649 ("Chess Investigation Finds U.S. Grandmaster ‘Likely Cheated’ More Than 100 Times (wsj.com)" (2022))

gurchik 2y ago
GM Denis Kadric (currently rated 309th worldwide) was just banned by Chess.com for allegedly cheating, and has no ability to appeal or see evidence used in the decision. https://old.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1fz4snq/gm_denis_kadric_vs_chesscom/ https://old.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1fz4snq/gm_denis_kad... Not only is the website the de facto platform for online play, some tournaments also use it for in-person games. The site has essentially become a chess authority organization of its own right. Its staff operate as judge, jury, and executioner behind closed doors. While I’m sure the majority of banned accounts were blatantly cheating, their team has apparently taken input from ChatGPT to run “simulations” to determine cheating probabilities. https://old.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/1873ocq/chesscom_claims_they_conducted_probabilistic/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/1873ocq/chesscom_c...
moomin 2y ago
I was going to ask what possible motivation this dude had, but you’ve answered that quite well.
sumo89 2y ago
I don't play chess and have never used chess.com, what's to stop someone playing on their PC and using an app on their phone to prompt their next move? I guess their anti cheat can't be like video game DRM but how do you declare someone's moved to be cheating without proving they're using a 3rd party?
- seanhunter 2y ago
  Here's how they describe it. https://www.chess.com/article/view/chess-com-fair-play-and-cheat-detection https://www.chess.com/article/view/chess-com-fair-play-and-c... It's a set of statistical methods as far as I can gather, that look at things like timing tells as well as accuracy compared to engine moves and so on. Obviously it's going to be imperfect.
- perihelions 2y ago
  In the same way mining a bitcoin proves that you've computed a large number of SHA-256 hashes, playing certain sequences of chess moves is attestation that you've run a large number of chess calculations—that you've solved a certain large system of constraints that has no real solution other than brute force. Naive cheating (that thing you describe) is obvious, because the cheater is running 6 orders of magnitude more computational power than a human and is proving it to you.

gurchik 2y ago

GM Denis Kadric (currently rated 309th worldwide) was just banned by Chess.com for allegedly cheating, and has no ability to appeal or see evidence used in the decision. https://old.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1fz4snq/gm_denis_kadric_vs_chesscom/ https://old.reddit.com/r/chess/comments/1fz4snq/gm_denis_kad... Not only is the website the de facto platform for online play, some tournaments also use it for in-person games. The site has essentially become a chess authority organization of its own right. Its staff operate as judge, jury, and executioner behind closed doors. While I’m sure the majority of banned accounts were blatantly cheating, their team has apparently taken input from ChatGPT to run “simulations” to determine cheating probabilities. https://old.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/1873ocq/chesscom_claims_they_conducted_probabilistic/ https://old.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/1873ocq/chesscom_c...

moomin 2y ago

I was going to ask what possible motivation this dude had, but you’ve answered that quite well.

sumo89 2y ago

I don't play chess and have never used chess.com, what's to stop someone playing on their PC and using an app on their phone to prompt their next move? I guess their anti cheat can't be like video game DRM but how do you declare someone's moved to be cheating without proving they're using a 3rd party?

seanhunter 2y ago
Here's how they describe it. https://www.chess.com/article/view/chess-com-fair-play-and-cheat-detection https://www.chess.com/article/view/chess-com-fair-play-and-c... It's a set of statistical methods as far as I can gather, that look at things like timing tells as well as accuracy compared to engine moves and so on. Obviously it's going to be imperfect.
perihelions 2y ago
In the same way mining a bitcoin proves that you've computed a large number of SHA-256 hashes, playing certain sequences of chess moves is attestation that you've run a large number of chess calculations—that you've solved a certain large system of constraints that has no real solution other than brute force. Naive cheating (that thing you describe) is obvious, because the cheater is running 6 orders of magnitude more computational power than a human and is proving it to you.