3 ms·

I'm also a roboticist. Perception and funding are hard. But don't forget battery energy density, and the power-to-weight ratio and energy efficiency of actuator

I'm also a roboticist. Perception and funding are hard. But don't forget battery energy density, and the power-to-weight ratio and energy efficiency of actuators. Also very very hard, and Moore's law helps not at all. Autonomous cars are in a nice niche since they store vast energy for actuation anyway, it's OK to be heavy, and the controls are relatively simple. They are limited by perception and decision making. Humanoids are way more limited by energy storage and actuation. Animals are absurdly efficient.

foobarian 2y ago
Tangential question: are there any actuators out there that mimic the animal muscle tissue, i.e. swelling laterally in order to shorten a tendon and pull a joint? This seems like a very elegant method compared to servos with all sorts of slack and rigid positioning. I'm not a roboticist so I'm not familiar with state of the art in actuators.
- whatshisface 2y ago
  They exist, but they're inefficient compared to ordinary motors.
jjk166 2y ago
Battery density is only an issue if these things are spending most of their time moving long distances. If you are targeting a drop in replacement for a human worker who is spending most of their time at a workstation, it can be plugged in while working. Even in a scenario where the robot can not be connected to power while working, that's easily solved with redundancy - get two robots, one works while the other charges. Obviously better battery life is a nice to have, but it's not an impediment to large scale adoption the way other big robotics problems are.
- robotresearcher 2y ago
  > easily solved with redundancy - get two robots. Yay, twice as expensive. And power tethers on robots suck so hard. Try it sometime, you’ll hate it.
  - jjk166 2y ago
    And how much more expensive is the twice as efficient power system that hasn't been developed yet? Nearly all robots in actual use have tethers, it's really not a big concern. Further there are other methods of providing power, such as induction. For any situation where long range mobility is really a concern, you probably don't want a humanoid robot to begin with.
  - jvanderbot 2y ago
    A problem that can be solved by spending 2x is not the type of fundamental problem I'm referring to (easily solved by "Funding" or otherwise known as a system design constraint and part of everyday engineering albeit very difficult and skillful engineering) The leaps that would be required to make a mannequin with motors intelligently interact with crowds (in groups no less) at a publicity event cannot be solved with 2x funding jumps, and I'm arguing they are largely perception-, sensing-, mapping- and self-modelling- based.
jvanderbot 2y ago
My point is that if you want to make a fully functional android last longer, have it take bathroom breaks and change out its lithium backpack. If you want to make a energy-unconstrained robot into a fully functional android, you have much bigger, fundamental problems.

foobarian 2y ago

Tangential question: are there any actuators out there that mimic the animal muscle tissue, i.e. swelling laterally in order to shorten a tendon and pull a joint? This seems like a very elegant method compared to servos with all sorts of slack and rigid positioning. I'm not a roboticist so I'm not familiar with state of the art in actuators.

whatshisface 2y ago
They exist, but they're inefficient compared to ordinary motors.

jjk166 2y ago

Battery density is only an issue if these things are spending most of their time moving long distances. If you are targeting a drop in replacement for a human worker who is spending most of their time at a workstation, it can be plugged in while working. Even in a scenario where the robot can not be connected to power while working, that's easily solved with redundancy - get two robots, one works while the other charges. Obviously better battery life is a nice to have, but it's not an impediment to large scale adoption the way other big robotics problems are.

robotresearcher 2y ago
> easily solved with redundancy - get two robots. Yay, twice as expensive. And power tethers on robots suck so hard. Try it sometime, you’ll hate it.
- jjk166 2y ago
  And how much more expensive is the twice as efficient power system that hasn't been developed yet? Nearly all robots in actual use have tethers, it's really not a big concern. Further there are other methods of providing power, such as induction. For any situation where long range mobility is really a concern, you probably don't want a humanoid robot to begin with.
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  A problem that can be solved by spending 2x is not the type of fundamental problem I'm referring to (easily solved by "Funding" or otherwise known as a system design constraint and part of everyday engineering albeit very difficult and skillful engineering) The leaps that would be required to make a mannequin with motors intelligently interact with crowds (in groups no less) at a publicity event cannot be solved with 2x funding jumps, and I'm arguing they are largely perception-, sensing-, mapping- and self-modelling- based.

jvanderbot 2y ago

My point is that if you want to make a fully functional android last longer, have it take bathroom breaks and change out its lithium backpack. If you want to make a energy-unconstrained robot into a fully functional android, you have much bigger, fundamental problems.