4 ms·

Could a non-black person even present a paper on afro-textured hair, without being subject to the vicissitudes of the social-justice-twitter-sphere?

burkaman 2y ago
Yes they could. The paper we're discussing was written by non black people. Another recent paper they reference was as well: https://research.nvidia.com/labs/toronto-ai/adaptive-shells/ https://research.nvidia.com/labs/toronto-ai/adaptive-shells/.
- IncreasePosts 2y ago
  The paper discussed has A.M. Darke listed as an author, who appears to be black. And that adaptive shell paper is not about black hair - it merely uses black hair as an example, along with cat hair, dog hair, leaves, and horse hair.
  - burkaman 2y ago
    Ok I don't know what to tell you then, we can't answer your question because there are no papers that meet your criteria. That's the whole point of this discussion, nobody has even tried. I'm assuming you won't think this counts either, but here's another paper they reference that includes afros, again written by non black authors: https://graphics.cs.utah.edu/research/projects/sag-free-hair/sig23_sagfree-hair.pdf https://graphics.cs.utah.edu/research/projects/sag-free-hair....
jrm4 2y ago
Black person here; this social disconnect is of course something I pay quite a bit of attention to. The answer, typically, is OF COURSE. Big time. It would be well appreciated by most. That being said, I get where this perception comes from -- there can be, as you call them, outsider social-justice folk who might try to say something weird here: But I just need to highlight the "outsider" part of that -- if only for non-black folks to understand and to try to pay attention to exactly who you're listening to and getting authority from? I hate to use a phrase like "real Black people" but I'll go with that for now; real Black people tend to be the MOST reasonable, but often under-heard. I'm reminded of, e.g. police reform; I understand that it's incredibly important and necessary. Which is why phrases/ideas like "Abolish the police" and "ACAB" are deeply unhelpful. (and as always, I am only one Black person, nothing I say here should be taken as gospel for everyone, I could be wrong)
- wbl 2y ago
  I'm reminded of college in Hyde Park: the older black people wanted the UCPD in the neighborhood because they saw it as a force of stability, while young white students who wouldn't be affected by shrinking the patrol area criticized it.
  - karmonhardan 2y ago
    This leaves out the perspective of the young black people who would have been the disproportionate target of police interactions. Unfortunately, moderation within a biased status quo doesn't achieve the goal of eliminating the bias. Those seeking a radical change can't reasonably be faulted for using radical rhetoric, only for wanting to change something that's "working."

burkaman 2y ago

Yes they could. The paper we're discussing was written by non black people. Another recent paper they reference was as well: https://research.nvidia.com/labs/toronto-ai/adaptive-shells/ https://research.nvidia.com/labs/toronto-ai/adaptive-shells/.

IncreasePosts 2y ago
The paper discussed has A.M. Darke listed as an author, who appears to be black. And that adaptive shell paper is not about black hair - it merely uses black hair as an example, along with cat hair, dog hair, leaves, and horse hair.
- burkaman 2y ago
  Ok I don't know what to tell you then, we can't answer your question because there are no papers that meet your criteria. That's the whole point of this discussion, nobody has even tried. I'm assuming you won't think this counts either, but here's another paper they reference that includes afros, again written by non black authors: https://graphics.cs.utah.edu/research/projects/sag-free-hair/sig23_sagfree-hair.pdf https://graphics.cs.utah.edu/research/projects/sag-free-hair....

jrm4 2y ago

Black person here; this social disconnect is of course something I pay quite a bit of attention to. The answer, typically, is OF COURSE. Big time. It would be well appreciated by most. That being said, I get where this perception comes from -- there can be, as you call them, outsider social-justice folk who might try to say something weird here: But I just need to highlight the "outsider" part of that -- if only for non-black folks to understand and to try to pay attention to exactly who you're listening to and getting authority from? I hate to use a phrase like "real Black people" but I'll go with that for now; real Black people tend to be the MOST reasonable, but often under-heard. I'm reminded of, e.g. police reform; I understand that it's incredibly important and necessary. Which is why phrases/ideas like "Abolish the police" and "ACAB" are deeply unhelpful. (and as always, I am only one Black person, nothing I say here should be taken as gospel for everyone, I could be wrong)

wbl 2y ago
I'm reminded of college in Hyde Park: the older black people wanted the UCPD in the neighborhood because they saw it as a force of stability, while young white students who wouldn't be affected by shrinking the patrol area criticized it.
- karmonhardan 2y ago
  This leaves out the perspective of the young black people who would have been the disproportionate target of police interactions. Unfortunately, moderation within a biased status quo doesn't achieve the goal of eliminating the bias. Those seeking a radical change can't reasonably be faulted for using radical rhetoric, only for wanting to change something that's "working."