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Yes it does very much depend on your starting point. For instance, coming from C Unix programming, it took me 2 hours to try OCaml 15 years ago or so, because

by rixed 2y ago

Yes it does very much depend on your starting point. For instance, coming from C Unix programming, it took me 2 hours to try OCaml 15 years ago or so, because Ocaml tooling, at that time, was the same as C. Basically, I made a generic rule for my makefiles to call ocamlopt instead of gcc and I was good to go. Installing a dependency was just the usual "./configure && make install" This was simple for me, but not for students with no Unix background. In that context "opam install" was simpler, although it's objectively more complex as it adds a few additional layers on top of the same process.

pdimitar 2y ago
Yep, it's about your background. I moved away from makefiles long ago and I don't regret it, for a multitude of reasons that are well explained in many places. `cargo add ...` is great and I wish every language offered a tool like that.
- rixed 2y ago
  Even when i use cargo or go or node, make is still needed to build everything that's not just code.
  - pdimitar 2y ago
    If you say so. There are plenty of tools that can do more or less the same without having to remember weird bash-isms and pattern expansion rules. I use `just` for project tasks, but there are many others.
    - rixed 2y ago
      I know there are many others, but make does any job, is very simple (once you have realized that recursive make is not needed for decades), is not tied to a specific environment, had been around for ages and will still be around 20 years from now. I don't think I'm easily satisfied with tools, but I have never had a reason to look for another tool that would solve a problem i don't have.
      - sshine 2y ago
        If you like Makefile, you’ll like Just.
  - sshine 2y ago
    > make is still needed You mean: I still need make For example, build.rs replaces some uses of a makefile. > build everything that's not just code Have you heard of: Just, Nix, Bazel, Helm, Terraform? Depending on the situation, there are many things you can build that aren't strictly code where you can use a bunch of other tools than make.

by rixed 2y ago

pdimitar 2y ago

Yep, it's about your background. I moved away from makefiles long ago and I don't regret it, for a multitude of reasons that are well explained in many places. `cargo add ...` is great and I wish every language offered a tool like that.

rixed 2y ago
Even when i use cargo or go or node, make is still needed to build everything that's not just code.
- pdimitar 2y ago
  If you say so. There are plenty of tools that can do more or less the same without having to remember weird bash-isms and pattern expansion rules. I use `just` for project tasks, but there are many others.
  - rixed 2y ago
    I know there are many others, but make does any job, is very simple (once you have realized that recursive make is not needed for decades), is not tied to a specific environment, had been around for ages and will still be around 20 years from now. I don't think I'm easily satisfied with tools, but I have never had a reason to look for another tool that would solve a problem i don't have.
    - sshine 2y ago
      If you like Makefile, you’ll like Just.
- sshine 2y ago
  > make is still needed You mean: I still need make For example, build.rs replaces some uses of a makefile. > build everything that's not just code Have you heard of: Just, Nix, Bazel, Helm, Terraform? Depending on the situation, there are many things you can build that aren't strictly code where you can use a bunch of other tools than make.