11 ms·

How ham radio endures

161 points by CrankyBear 2y ago

mindcrime 2y ago
So very true. Ham radio operators, AIUI, played a critical role with emergency communications in the Western NC area in the aftermath of Helene. I believe there were some instances where local PSAP's / dispatch centers were knocked completely offline and they had local ham radio operators helping to dispatch fire/ems resources. The great thing about ham radio, it really is an inexpensive hobby to get started. Now, once you get into it, you can spend just about as much money as you want (or have access to). But a Bao-feng handheld that costs around $40 or so can work the local repeaters on 2m or 70cm and is a fine way to get started, learn the lingo, etc. I encourage everyone to give it a shot, and join up with a local AUXCOMM group or whatever you have locally. I have to admit, I'm not as active with our local group as I'd like to be, due to competing demands for my time, but I hope to eventually work things out to where I can get more active.
- mullen 2y ago
  > But a Bao-feng handheld that costs around $40 or so can work the local repeaters on 2m or 70cm and is a fine way to get started, learn the lingo, etc. Baofeng makes a $25 radio that works on 2m/70cm and with repeaters. If you live in a place where there are hurricanes/earthquakes, there is no excuse to not have one charged up and ready to go. Getting the basic ham radio license is easy.
  - eternityforest 2y ago
    How does ham compare to meshtastic in a real emergency? Meshtastic has the advantage that it's license free and you don't have to try to convince people to spend days studying for it. I have a license and a baofeng, but I don't know much of anything practical about emergency communications.
    - amingilani 2y ago
      In an emergency you can make use of anything, including a radio without an amateur radio license. But it’s easier to use when you’ve had the practice and aren’t fumbling around learning about offsets and CTCSS tones. Or even better, when you have the repeaters preprogrammed into your radio. Meshtastic is awesome, I have two T-echos. But it doesn’t compare to being able to whip out a handheld radio, tune into a nearby repeater and dial out with EchoLink to check in with my partner when I’m hiking.
      - donw 2y ago
        Pre-COVID, our office building in Tokyo organized a disaster-preparation day every year. This was run by the building management team, which politely informed every corporate tenant in the office section that, yes, they would be participating. Sure, we all knew when the drill would be so we could adjust our schedules, but the actual alarms did sound, and the entire building evacuated, which included climbing down something like fifty flights of stairs with your emergency bag -- mandated by law in Japan -- in-hand, plus (optionally) using a fire extinguisher on a pretend fire after you got outside. Sure, the extinguishers were just pressurized water, and you were spraying at a metal target, but you still had to pull the pin, squeeze, and aim, and they were at full pressure. Was a good reminder that it's way better to have your first experience with stuff like a fire extinguisher happen under controlled conditions, as opposed to having to figure things out before your kitchen fire gets out-of-hand and burns down the house. Same goes for radio, changing tires on a car with the provided jack, and so on. Preparedness is 90% "knowing what to do" and 10% "having the right tools for the job".
        Dalewyn 2y ago
        There's a galactic difference between just reading about it and actually experiencing it even just once. Essentially the difference between being book smart vs. street wise.
        scottyah 2y ago
        “We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training.” Reading about it generates expectations, and they can be deadly.
- wepple 2y ago
  > But a Bao-feng handheld that costs around $40 or so can work the local repeaters on 2m or 70cm and is a fine way to get started, learn the lingo, etc. I’m not sure where you live, but I’ve never lived in a house or apartment where I could hit a local 2m repeater without driving or getting up on a roof. I also have an 80 watt 2m radio in my truck, and will turn it on when I’m doing long trips. Very rare to encounter anyone else (simplex), let alone be able to chat for more than a very short period of time.
  - giraffe_lady 2y ago
    I haven't done a like, systematic survey or anything but when I used to travel for work I'd take my little quansheng and mess around. Basically every american city with at least one "tall" building has a repeater up there that covers the whole metro area. There's one on the sears tower that you can hear in michigan. But even dubuque had one I could contact from a hotel room across town. So yeah most of the area is rural and there's probably not much out there without big gear. But most of the population lives within 30 miles of a 12-storey building.
  - zhengyi13 2y ago
    Experiences do definitely vary in this regard. I live in a CA Bay Area suburb. Geographically, this is a valley, and there are a fair number of more-or-less active repeaters mounted up along various mountain ridges, and I can generally hit a couple of them from my tiny backyard w/ a 5W HT (and a decent antenna!). OTOH, while I never got in to it, there is spectrum available to Technician licensees (assuming you're in the US) on 6m and 10m. You're not likely to get NVIS propagation there and hit more local folk that you couldn't hit w/ LOS, but that might get contacts where nothing's available on 2m/70cm, for not too much more initial equipment cost (again, assuming US and an HN user, where moving from $40 to say, $400 isn't completely out of the question).
  - mindcrime 2y ago
    Fair point. I live in Chapel Hill, NC, and we're fortunate enough to have multiple repeaters that can be worked with a hand-held from where I live. But yes, geography will definitely play a factor. I should probably have noted that originally. Good catch.
melling 2y ago
Ham radio always seemed a bit boring compared to the Internet, computers, and software development. What are the most interesting things people are doing with Ham these days? I’ve had a technical class license for a couple decades but never used it, which I keep renewing. Willing to get a more advanced license.
- binome 2y ago
  Check out https://github.com/drowe67/radae https://github.com/drowe67/radae. David Rowe has been working on a really neat new digital mode for audio transmission over HF channels, using a pretrained autoencoder. It's currently getting integrated into the freeDV gui in this branch https://github.com/drowe67/freedv-gui/tree/ms-rade-integ https://github.com/drowe67/freedv-gui/tree/ms-rade-integ
  - chillingeffect 2y ago
    That reminds me. I'd like ppl to get excited abt the "codec2" open source replacement for c4fm, p25, and dmr... unless sth newer is out there https://www.amateurradio.com/codec2-open-source-vocoder-project/ https://www.amateurradio.com/codec2-open-source-vocoder-proj...
    - drewnick 2y ago
      My son and I listen to DMR and P25 all the time, and we listened to a bunch of the samples of Codec2 vs AMBE. And while it might be a slight improvement, it doesn't move the needle enough to really excite. Perhaps a longer QSO would be more exciting to hear the difference on. Wouldn't hardware be a constratint just like it is with M17?
      - chillingeffect 2y ago
        For me it's not the sound quality (as long as it's comparable), but the ability to use digital modes on any radio without vendor lock-in!
- 2y ago
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0perat0r 2y ago
I'm a an operator myself. To be honest: Ham radio - in my opinion - is slowly dying. At some point there was a split between the ham radio and opensource scene. There are still some connections, but the majority is gone. It's IMHO pretty much a question of mentality ("No license? Underling"). A lot of software/hardware there isn't opensource but badly written shareware and the entire thing seems to be stuck in the past. Have a look at this VARA stuff.. that list endlessy can be continued.
- sitzkrieg 2y ago
  hard to completely agree, wsjtx is a good example logging software has enjoyed some fatcats for a while for sure tho
amingilani 2y ago
Heh, I just finished an AuxComm training and two IMS (Ontario’s version of ICS) courses last week. Great timing.
Animats 2y ago
Homeland Security tries to get local first responders to join the SHARES emergency radio network.[1] This is 5 HF channels at 5 MHz, and some more around 15 MHz. They test on Wednesdays around noon. Transmission is voice or PACTOR. It's ham-type technology for government emergency response. Although many local first responders are not on this net, the USCG, military, and Homeland Security monitor it. So it's a way to reach U.S. Government resources in emergencies. This isn't something you access with a handheld, since it requires at least a long-wire antenna. You can get hundreds or thousands of miles of range. The idea is to have something that can get through from a large disaster area. [1] https://www.cisa.gov/resources-tools/programs/shared-resources-shares-high-frequency-hf-radio-program/shares-faqs https://www.cisa.gov/resources-tools/programs/shared-resourc... [2] https://ema.arrl.org/wp-content/uploads/files/SHARES_Spectrum_Monitor.pdf https://ema.arrl.org/wp-content/uploads/files/SHARES_Spectru...
- kermatt 2y ago
  Do you have a link that describes the equipment, for those of us who don't yet understand what a long wire antenna is? Having been in the WNC hurricane area, I have a newfound interest in this stuff.
  - _whiteCaps_ 2y ago
    At 5MHz you have a wavelength of approximately 60m. So for a dipole antenna (the most basic) you'd need approximately 30m of wire. You'd have a length of coax cable going to the centre point of the antenna, so pair of 15m wires extending from each side. Getting your amateur radio license covers this in more detail. Dave Casler has a bunch of useful videos on things like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18-6sJHk9hU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18-6sJHk9hU
    - cschneid 2y ago
      A dipole is a very simple antenna, and pretty efficient. There are other shorter options that have worse performance too, but perhaps more suitable for an adhoc tree deployment. (random wire, EFHW) (I know you know this, but just adding in. Ham is fun! I like doing park & camping deployments)
ubj 2y ago
I'm curious how satellite Internet like Starlink will enhance and complement ham radio. To be clear, I don't see it replacing ham radio--there are too many great reasons to get into the hobby for that. But Starlink has been playing a similar emergency communications role in recent hurricane-hit areas as ham radio has in the past. Will be interesting to see how the two are used going forward.
user3939382 2y ago
We had a freak earthquake in the northeast some months back. Guess what immediately went down when you needed it most? Cell towers. My guess is they’re not designed for the capacity they’d need in an emergency where almost everyone is trying to call simultaneously. That’s reason enough to have an alternate comm link.
nlh 2y ago
One thing I will say, the Internet deeply and dramatically changed my perspective on the global community and connectivity in general. When I got my ham license (DE K2KD) at age ~11, the idea of picking up a microphone or tapping on a morse key or using a computer with RTTY to talk to someone on the other side of the world was mind-blowing. "Mom, I'm talking to someone in Australia! I'm talking to someone in Nigeria!". Now we block entire IP ranges because they send too much spam or because we think the traffic from an entire country has a high fraud rate. Easy come easy go. Sigh.
- adamc 2y ago
  The problem is that a huge fraction of people are worth talking to, but a small fraction -- 5%? 10%? -- can poison that well so thoroughly that it is unusable. Being a ham operator takes some effort and is harder to exploit, so most people you talk to will just be normal humans -- enthusiasts. But the internet attracts every freak and scam operator in the world. I'm reminded of various "free" rock concerts of my youth, which were often disasters -- too many people, half of them stoned or otherwise out of control, etc. -- things I quickly learned I would pay to avoid. Things that are too easy attract people I don't want to interact with.
somberi 2y ago
I was a 16-year-old kid in still-developing India, 1986. One had to wait seven years to get a landline connection. My friends and I went through the Morse Code speed test and evaluation course, for which we prepared weeks and weeks. I was issued the handle OM118. The non-profit organization that issues the license had a single Ham Radio for which you need to apply well in advance for 30-minute slots. Four of us huddled in a small booth of a room, fiddling with knobs, wondering why there was static instead of some exotic voice from another part of the world - Sri Lanka, at least, please God. A voice crackled in. We immediately knew who it was, but we were too cool to admit it. The voice asked us where we were...Madras, we said. He was too...We went around talking over each other, and the other end said, "I am an actor. My name is Kamal Haasan." 1. Madras is now called Chennai. 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Haasan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Haasan
- cadr 2y ago
  That is a cool story!
sudb 2y ago
This youtube video by No Boilerplate (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcF6tvepRlg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcF6tvepRlg) was a great summary and really got my interest up initially but I personally got bogged down quite quickly by the prospect of having to learn Morse Code
- abrahms 2y ago
  You don't have to learn morse code to pass the initial HAM test.
  - cschneid 2y ago
    In the US, I don't believe morse is required for any tier of license anymore. For sure, I have my general and don't know it.
  - bigfishrunning 2y ago
    Or any ham test in the united states (note: learning Morse code is worth doing anyway)
  - agiacalone 2y ago
    Yes, it's any ham test in the U.S. The sw code (morse) portion was eliminated back in the 2000s.
sandworm101 2y ago
Widespread access to space-based networks might finally kill hams. When disaster strikes, the guy with solar panels and a starlink terminal can facilitate more traffic than a hundred hams. Having cellphones that can get an SMS up to a sat might be more useful than handing out 4w radios.
- mikece 2y ago
  Access to space-based network only works if it doesn't rely on a downlink connected to a fiber-optic network (eg: Starlink). There's nothing glamorous about amateur radio but being able to string up a wire and get a message hundreds or thousands of miles using only a 12V battery has its moments.
  - dgacmu 2y ago
    Starlink is better in this regard now. First, the ground station density in the US is really quite good and you're likely to be able to hit a single up/down path through most emergencies. And, second, over the last year they've turned on a lot of inter-satellite links (ISLs). The ISLs have a huge effect on reach -- you can now have a sat terminal in parts of eastern Africa and reach the ground station in Lagos, for example. (No affiliation with them; I'm working with a Ph.D. student studying this question.) I'd say that one advantage of ham is that you can operate it on much lower power equipment still - there's no such thing as a starlink HT yet, although we're starting to get close with cell phones with emergency satellite messaging. But starlink has a bandwidth advantage if you need to send photos or tunnel cell. Different capabilities - it's good to have both! AC3ME
    - mikece 2y ago
      "...there's no such thing as a starlink HT yet..." The FCC just gave emergency authorization for Starlink to enable direct-to-satellite service for T-Mobile customers in western North Carolina. It's my understanding that this is what Starlink was planning on releasing but they are doing a live beta right now. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/10/fcc-lets-starlink-provide-service-to-cell-phones-in-areas-hit-by-hurricane/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/10/fcc-lets-starlin...
velcrovan 2y ago
Ham radio and blogs are at similar stages of cultural relevance. There may be something the blogging community can learn from the ham community, though hopefully blogging survives as something more than an emergency-response phenomenon.
hilbert42 2y ago
I often wonder why amateur radio operators put up with the derogatory name ham because many are very skilled in electronics and they're anything but hams. I've always hated the term, even the term amateur has negative connotations that aren't warranted. I'd prefer the term experimental radio operator or such. I say that as someone who once held an amateur ticket (for quite some decades) which I got whilst I was still at school.
- kylehotchkiss 2y ago
  It’s impolite but the hobby is dominated by older men who sit on their ratios talking about their radios. Why would young people choose that as an interest when there are so many new STEM type things to do (programming, 3D printing, etc)
  - hilbert42 2y ago
    It's not impolite to speak your mind, and my comments are not meant to offend. :-) You're right. When I used to participate in amateur radio as a teenager, those who were not involved—usually irritated wives and girlfriends—were apt to often repeat things like 'get off that radio and help me with the dishes', or 'they're always wasting time talking unintelligible gibberish', and in my mother's case 'stop mucking about and do your homework'. I remember the taunts and criticisms well. Listen to this YouTube audio of comedian Tony Hancock's Radio Ham. He wasn't an amateur but he summarized the prevailing attitude of many back then: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=stmSok14-IU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=stmSok14-IU However, in recent years amateur radio operators have had their revenge—and it's come by the ton! With the advent of the internet Amateurs can now correctly point to not millions but billions of totally-addicted smartphone and internet users who waste endless hours texting, or talking/posting on social media—Facebook, WhatsApp, X, etc.—mostly inconsequential nonsense and drivel, or dealing in fake news that's damaging the social fabric of society. (BTW, I've no social media accounts, HN's my limit.) Right, the very thing past generations accused amateurs of doing is now not only done by billions of people but also for millions of them their involvement is far in excess of anything amateurs would have done pre-internet. As you would be aware, smartphone, social media and internet addiction has become a serious social problem. As an ex-amateur I'll put this on the record. Amateurs by virtue of their technical abilities in radio/electronics—skills that must meet a set minimum standard of proficiency as mandated by regulations/law by both governments and the UN's International Telecommunications Union (ITU)—are granted access to very valuable spectrum space. An Amateur radio license, which is only obtained after passing an examination, gives Amateurs exclusive access to many parts of the electromagnetic spectrum. In effect, Amateurs have had and still have exclusive communications channels that allow them to communicate to any part of the world whenever they feel like it so long as they do so within the terms of their license, which, in brief, boils down to not causing interference or disrupting other communication users/services. Even in this internet age this is a privilege that not even internet and social media users can boast about for they're always under the control—the fickle beck and call—of ISPs and Big Tech and the requirement that internet protocols and network hardware remain functional. On the other hand amateurs are always in full control of their stations (that's the edict set out in the terms of their licenses). It's why for over a century Amateurs have been called upon in emergencies whenever normal communications fail. As mentioned, my dislike of names Ham Radio and Amateur do not do justice to this longstanding and valuable service, they do not reflect the true extent of the pool of talent that exists within its members. Also, amateurs are a cliquish bunch with a language and etiquette of their own and that has very distinct advantages. For instance, decades ago I used to work in the prototype laboratory of one of RCA's divisions that manufactured telecommunications, radio and TV broadcast equipment and my boss, a brilliant electronics engineer and radio amateur who also helped establish the division, employed me over other applicants because I was a radio amateur. His experience was that when employing people with equal qualifications then selecting the one that also has an amateur ticket made the best sense, as often they had a diehard interest in electronics from a very young age and thus had a much better intrinsic/core understanding of the subject. I've frequently seen this scenario played out over the years. You ask 'Why would young people choose Amateur Radio as an interest when there are so many new STEM-type things to do (programming, 3D printing, etc.).' I'll answer that but I'll begin by saying Amateur Radio still has a strong following and many enthusiastic followers, but I'd agree that per capita it doesn’t attract the numbers it did in the pre-internet days (especially youngsters—and it needs new blood). There are several reasons for this: Until around 1970 those interested in electronics and who wanted it as a hobby at home had few options, that usually came down to repairing/building radios (sometimes TVs), and or Hi-Fi amplifiers. There were others, but that was mainly it. Thus, many youngsters gravitated to amateur radio, it was a sort of natural progression. For instance, the first radios I built were crystal sets, on one I picked up an amateur radio operator (by profession a grocery store manager) who lived about four miles away who I befriended, he taught me a lot. That led to me to passing my amateur ticket exam at age 14 and eventually to my career in electronics. By the early 1980s microprocessors became the rage, back then I had an advanced S100 system with a 8085/8086 combo, it also had a Z80 board, I had to program in Assembler to get its BIOS functioning. This 'new' electronics diluted the pool of those with an interest in electronics. Also, around that time the hype around computers was phenomenal. Amateur radio got drowned in the noise. Then a decade or so later the internet and later still other distractions, social media, access to online media etc. It wasn't only amateur radio that suffered declining numbers, also the 'new' tech had hijacked interest away from many other hobbies. So to your point about why one would choose Amateur Radio when there are so many others available. To answer that one has to ask what is it that drives a person's interest and what environment was he/she exposed to that nurtured that interest at an early age. If one has an interest in physics, that is how things really work then one has to get to grips with the hardware at its most fundamental level. One not only has to understand how semiconductors work but also resistors, capacitors and so, not only that but one must be fully fluent about how they operate. On the other hand, lounge-lizard programmers are glued to their screens programming in high-level languages, C et al, and often they don't know one end of a soldering iron from another. An amateur who doesn't get his hands dirty from hardware or the occasional belt from a high voltage anode isn't worthy of the name. Many of us who are interested in the physics side of radio had to become good programmers whether we liked it or not. For that, engineering at uni made me learn Fortran, and later various Assemblers, Lisp and C and a smattering of others. One of my amateur friends was so good at machine code that he could just scan pages of a hex dump then make a comment such as 'I'll just change value at hex addr 'ABCD' from 'xx' to 'yy', that'll save me having to change R53 from 270kΩ to 330kΩ (I never had that level of patience). It's this inherent hands-on feel for electronics at its most fundamental grassroots level that often gives Amateurs the edge. You'd be surprised how many influential people in tech have an amateur ticket filed away somewhere even if they never mention it. And you'll often find that their interest began when they were kids. It goes with the territory. I'm sorry that Amateur Radio has been somewhat lost in the noise, the fact is that it has many facets some of which are highly technical and many youngsters are unaware of it. I'd venture that Amateur Radio is still of importance, unfortunately, this post long so I'm unable to develop a supporting argument, I'll just give an illustration instead. Your smartphone is by far the most advanced and sophisticated technology that you now own (years ago, I used to say that about television sets). Here's some rhetorical questions for which no answers are required. How much do you actually know about the working of your smartphone? You may have a rough idea of the goings-on at OSI levels from say levels 4 to 7, perhaps even 3. but what about levels 1 and 2? Well, let me say that to have a reasonable working understanding of those levels/hardware you need to know some quantum mechanics (at least at its practical level such as how quantum tunneling works). If you don't then you can't design the semiconductors to run the device. Such understanding is crucial in both the microprocessors and the extremely low noise amplifiers that are used in the phone's RF stages, especially the GPS receiver. Also, one needs an understanding of electrical principles including Maxwell's equations, then there's thermodynamics—one has to understand how thermal noise occurs in low noise amplifiers, the WiFi, mobile and GPS receivers. One must implicitly understand the relationship between bandwidth and noise—the thermal noise equation†, and so on. I'll bet many who think they understand the workings of a smartphone have never heard of said equation let alone having ever derived it from first principles. What's this to do with Amateur radio? Well, the history of AR (and comms generally) is littered with the struggle to make HW perform better and various forms of noise are the enemy, amateurs instinctively understand this struggle, and you'll often find that engineers who work with noise in RF circuits have Amateur Radio backgrounds, again it often comes with the territory. AR comes in many levels. And many of those who natter on air with seemingly little to say frequently have a deep understanding of the above topics. Whilst this understanding is usually honed fine during tertiary education you'll often find the roots of their understanding began with Amateur Radio. AR is what one makes of it, it's a hobby with a truly vast array of diverse technical aspects, and with it comes the enjoyable camaraderie of fellow amateurs. † V(noise)=(4kTRΔf)^0.5, https://www.qsl.net/va3iul/Noise/Understanding%20Noise%20Figure.pdf https://www.qsl.net/va3iul/Noise/Understanding%20Noise%20Fig...
MagicMoonlight 2y ago
I don’t see it enduring much longer. Why would I want to pay a fortune and sit exams just to use a radio to say a standard test phrase to a stranger? I think it would be nice to have a radio but it just seems like too much effort for too little reward.
- JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
  I know nothing about ham radio but I’ve been looking to join this global community for the past few years. This thread and post did entice me to start my journey but you’re wrong on a few details: - the exam is cheap and easy as long as you study for a week (high-schoolers did it in the past) - in some countries, you don’t need to pay yearly fee to keep your ID thing (which is also cheap) - the effort doesn’t seem very hard Last but not least and it’s the most important for me: you can talk around the whole world without needing a phone maker or an ISP or any other kind of company filtering what and how you can talk as long as you respect global human rules. It’s like the last freedom that we have here since the newsgroups of the 80s/90s. You can send a global message without having to rely on a weird protocol sent through a black box (phone) relayed by an ISP. It’s the rawest form of global messaging out there.
- agiacalone 2y ago
  This is a pretty gross mischaracterization of ham radio. There are exams, sure. But the entry level one(s) are typically not that bad. Something a high-school grad could do in an afternoon. Fortune? Most exams now are free, although there are some clubs that charge a token fee (~$10 USD or so). Radios from China are cheap and cost around $25. Sure, the hobby can get really expensive, but it doesn't have to be. And "standard phrase" is not even accurate. Typically, people "ragchew" on repeaters with the Tech license, but that is not it either. Digital modes, RC/Model airplane control, satellite coms, APRS (GPS tracking), etc.

161 points by CrankyBear 2y ago

So very true. Ham radio operators, AIUI, played a critical role with emergency communications in the Western NC area in the aftermath of Helene. I believe there were some instances where local PSAP's / dispatch centers were knocked completely offline and they had local ham radio operators helping to dispatch fire/ems resources. The great thing about ham radio, it really is an inexpensive hobby to get started. Now, once you get into it, you can spend just about as much money as you want (or have access to). But a Bao-feng handheld that costs around $40 or so can work the local repeaters on 2m or 70cm and is a fine way to get started, learn the lingo, etc. I encourage everyone to give it a shot, and join up with a local AUXCOMM group or whatever you have locally. I have to admit, I'm not as active with our local group as I'd like to be, due to competing demands for my time, but I hope to eventually work things out to where I can get more active.

mullen 2y ago
> But a Bao-feng handheld that costs around $40 or so can work the local repeaters on 2m or 70cm and is a fine way to get started, learn the lingo, etc. Baofeng makes a $25 radio that works on 2m/70cm and with repeaters. If you live in a place where there are hurricanes/earthquakes, there is no excuse to not have one charged up and ready to go. Getting the basic ham radio license is easy.
- eternityforest 2y ago
  How does ham compare to meshtastic in a real emergency? Meshtastic has the advantage that it's license free and you don't have to try to convince people to spend days studying for it. I have a license and a baofeng, but I don't know much of anything practical about emergency communications.
  - amingilani 2y ago
    In an emergency you can make use of anything, including a radio without an amateur radio license. But it’s easier to use when you’ve had the practice and aren’t fumbling around learning about offsets and CTCSS tones. Or even better, when you have the repeaters preprogrammed into your radio. Meshtastic is awesome, I have two T-echos. But it doesn’t compare to being able to whip out a handheld radio, tune into a nearby repeater and dial out with EchoLink to check in with my partner when I’m hiking.
    - donw 2y ago
      Pre-COVID, our office building in Tokyo organized a disaster-preparation day every year. This was run by the building management team, which politely informed every corporate tenant in the office section that, yes, they would be participating. Sure, we all knew when the drill would be so we could adjust our schedules, but the actual alarms did sound, and the entire building evacuated, which included climbing down something like fifty flights of stairs with your emergency bag -- mandated by law in Japan -- in-hand, plus (optionally) using a fire extinguisher on a pretend fire after you got outside. Sure, the extinguishers were just pressurized water, and you were spraying at a metal target, but you still had to pull the pin, squeeze, and aim, and they were at full pressure. Was a good reminder that it's way better to have your first experience with stuff like a fire extinguisher happen under controlled conditions, as opposed to having to figure things out before your kitchen fire gets out-of-hand and burns down the house. Same goes for radio, changing tires on a car with the provided jack, and so on. Preparedness is 90% "knowing what to do" and 10% "having the right tools for the job".
      - Dalewyn 2y ago
        There's a galactic difference between just reading about it and actually experiencing it even just once. Essentially the difference between being book smart vs. street wise.
        scottyah 2y ago
        “We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training.” Reading about it generates expectations, and they can be deadly.
wepple 2y ago
> But a Bao-feng handheld that costs around $40 or so can work the local repeaters on 2m or 70cm and is a fine way to get started, learn the lingo, etc. I’m not sure where you live, but I’ve never lived in a house or apartment where I could hit a local 2m repeater without driving or getting up on a roof. I also have an 80 watt 2m radio in my truck, and will turn it on when I’m doing long trips. Very rare to encounter anyone else (simplex), let alone be able to chat for more than a very short period of time.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  I haven't done a like, systematic survey or anything but when I used to travel for work I'd take my little quansheng and mess around. Basically every american city with at least one "tall" building has a repeater up there that covers the whole metro area. There's one on the sears tower that you can hear in michigan. But even dubuque had one I could contact from a hotel room across town. So yeah most of the area is rural and there's probably not much out there without big gear. But most of the population lives within 30 miles of a 12-storey building.
- zhengyi13 2y ago
  Experiences do definitely vary in this regard. I live in a CA Bay Area suburb. Geographically, this is a valley, and there are a fair number of more-or-less active repeaters mounted up along various mountain ridges, and I can generally hit a couple of them from my tiny backyard w/ a 5W HT (and a decent antenna!). OTOH, while I never got in to it, there is spectrum available to Technician licensees (assuming you're in the US) on 6m and 10m. You're not likely to get NVIS propagation there and hit more local folk that you couldn't hit w/ LOS, but that might get contacts where nothing's available on 2m/70cm, for not too much more initial equipment cost (again, assuming US and an HN user, where moving from $40 to say, $400 isn't completely out of the question).
- mindcrime 2y ago
  Fair point. I live in Chapel Hill, NC, and we're fortunate enough to have multiple repeaters that can be worked with a hand-held from where I live. But yes, geography will definitely play a factor. I should probably have noted that originally. Good catch.

melling 2y ago

Ham radio always seemed a bit boring compared to the Internet, computers, and software development. What are the most interesting things people are doing with Ham these days? I’ve had a technical class license for a couple decades but never used it, which I keep renewing. Willing to get a more advanced license.

binome 2y ago
Check out https://github.com/drowe67/radae https://github.com/drowe67/radae. David Rowe has been working on a really neat new digital mode for audio transmission over HF channels, using a pretrained autoencoder. It's currently getting integrated into the freeDV gui in this branch https://github.com/drowe67/freedv-gui/tree/ms-rade-integ https://github.com/drowe67/freedv-gui/tree/ms-rade-integ
- chillingeffect 2y ago
  That reminds me. I'd like ppl to get excited abt the "codec2" open source replacement for c4fm, p25, and dmr... unless sth newer is out there https://www.amateurradio.com/codec2-open-source-vocoder-project/ https://www.amateurradio.com/codec2-open-source-vocoder-proj...
  - drewnick 2y ago
    My son and I listen to DMR and P25 all the time, and we listened to a bunch of the samples of Codec2 vs AMBE. And while it might be a slight improvement, it doesn't move the needle enough to really excite. Perhaps a longer QSO would be more exciting to hear the difference on. Wouldn't hardware be a constratint just like it is with M17?
    - chillingeffect 2y ago
      For me it's not the sound quality (as long as it's comparable), but the ability to use digital modes on any radio without vendor lock-in!
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0perat0r 2y ago

I'm a an operator myself. To be honest: Ham radio - in my opinion - is slowly dying. At some point there was a split between the ham radio and opensource scene. There are still some connections, but the majority is gone. It's IMHO pretty much a question of mentality ("No license? Underling"). A lot of software/hardware there isn't opensource but badly written shareware and the entire thing seems to be stuck in the past. Have a look at this VARA stuff.. that list endlessy can be continued.

sitzkrieg 2y ago
hard to completely agree, wsjtx is a good example logging software has enjoyed some fatcats for a while for sure tho

amingilani 2y ago

Heh, I just finished an AuxComm training and two IMS (Ontario’s version of ICS) courses last week. Great timing.

Animats 2y ago

Homeland Security tries to get local first responders to join the SHARES emergency radio network.[1] This is 5 HF channels at 5 MHz, and some more around 15 MHz. They test on Wednesdays around noon. Transmission is voice or PACTOR. It's ham-type technology for government emergency response. Although many local first responders are not on this net, the USCG, military, and Homeland Security monitor it. So it's a way to reach U.S. Government resources in emergencies. This isn't something you access with a handheld, since it requires at least a long-wire antenna. You can get hundreds or thousands of miles of range. The idea is to have something that can get through from a large disaster area. [1] https://www.cisa.gov/resources-tools/programs/shared-resources-shares-high-frequency-hf-radio-program/shares-faqs https://www.cisa.gov/resources-tools/programs/shared-resourc... [2] https://ema.arrl.org/wp-content/uploads/files/SHARES_Spectrum_Monitor.pdf https://ema.arrl.org/wp-content/uploads/files/SHARES_Spectru...

kermatt 2y ago
Do you have a link that describes the equipment, for those of us who don't yet understand what a long wire antenna is? Having been in the WNC hurricane area, I have a newfound interest in this stuff.
- _whiteCaps_ 2y ago
  At 5MHz you have a wavelength of approximately 60m. So for a dipole antenna (the most basic) you'd need approximately 30m of wire. You'd have a length of coax cable going to the centre point of the antenna, so pair of 15m wires extending from each side. Getting your amateur radio license covers this in more detail. Dave Casler has a bunch of useful videos on things like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18-6sJHk9hU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18-6sJHk9hU
  - cschneid 2y ago
    A dipole is a very simple antenna, and pretty efficient. There are other shorter options that have worse performance too, but perhaps more suitable for an adhoc tree deployment. (random wire, EFHW) (I know you know this, but just adding in. Ham is fun! I like doing park & camping deployments)

ubj 2y ago

I'm curious how satellite Internet like Starlink will enhance and complement ham radio. To be clear, I don't see it replacing ham radio--there are too many great reasons to get into the hobby for that. But Starlink has been playing a similar emergency communications role in recent hurricane-hit areas as ham radio has in the past. Will be interesting to see how the two are used going forward.

user3939382 2y ago

We had a freak earthquake in the northeast some months back. Guess what immediately went down when you needed it most? Cell towers. My guess is they’re not designed for the capacity they’d need in an emergency where almost everyone is trying to call simultaneously. That’s reason enough to have an alternate comm link.

nlh 2y ago

One thing I will say, the Internet deeply and dramatically changed my perspective on the global community and connectivity in general. When I got my ham license (DE K2KD) at age ~11, the idea of picking up a microphone or tapping on a morse key or using a computer with RTTY to talk to someone on the other side of the world was mind-blowing. "Mom, I'm talking to someone in Australia! I'm talking to someone in Nigeria!". Now we block entire IP ranges because they send too much spam or because we think the traffic from an entire country has a high fraud rate. Easy come easy go. Sigh.

adamc 2y ago
The problem is that a huge fraction of people are worth talking to, but a small fraction -- 5%? 10%? -- can poison that well so thoroughly that it is unusable. Being a ham operator takes some effort and is harder to exploit, so most people you talk to will just be normal humans -- enthusiasts. But the internet attracts every freak and scam operator in the world. I'm reminded of various "free" rock concerts of my youth, which were often disasters -- too many people, half of them stoned or otherwise out of control, etc. -- things I quickly learned I would pay to avoid. Things that are too easy attract people I don't want to interact with.

somberi 2y ago

I was a 16-year-old kid in still-developing India, 1986. One had to wait seven years to get a landline connection. My friends and I went through the Morse Code speed test and evaluation course, for which we prepared weeks and weeks. I was issued the handle OM118. The non-profit organization that issues the license had a single Ham Radio for which you need to apply well in advance for 30-minute slots. Four of us huddled in a small booth of a room, fiddling with knobs, wondering why there was static instead of some exotic voice from another part of the world - Sri Lanka, at least, please God. A voice crackled in. We immediately knew who it was, but we were too cool to admit it. The voice asked us where we were...Madras, we said. He was too...We went around talking over each other, and the other end said, "I am an actor. My name is Kamal Haasan." 1. Madras is now called Chennai. 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Haasan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamal_Haasan

cadr 2y ago
That is a cool story!

sudb 2y ago

This youtube video by No Boilerplate (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcF6tvepRlg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcF6tvepRlg) was a great summary and really got my interest up initially but I personally got bogged down quite quickly by the prospect of having to learn Morse Code

abrahms 2y ago
You don't have to learn morse code to pass the initial HAM test.
- cschneid 2y ago
  In the US, I don't believe morse is required for any tier of license anymore. For sure, I have my general and don't know it.
- bigfishrunning 2y ago
  Or any ham test in the united states (note: learning Morse code is worth doing anyway)
- agiacalone 2y ago
  Yes, it's any ham test in the U.S. The sw code (morse) portion was eliminated back in the 2000s.

sandworm101 2y ago

Widespread access to space-based networks might finally kill hams. When disaster strikes, the guy with solar panels and a starlink terminal can facilitate more traffic than a hundred hams. Having cellphones that can get an SMS up to a sat might be more useful than handing out 4w radios.

mikece 2y ago
Access to space-based network only works if it doesn't rely on a downlink connected to a fiber-optic network (eg: Starlink). There's nothing glamorous about amateur radio but being able to string up a wire and get a message hundreds or thousands of miles using only a 12V battery has its moments.
- dgacmu 2y ago
  Starlink is better in this regard now. First, the ground station density in the US is really quite good and you're likely to be able to hit a single up/down path through most emergencies. And, second, over the last year they've turned on a lot of inter-satellite links (ISLs). The ISLs have a huge effect on reach -- you can now have a sat terminal in parts of eastern Africa and reach the ground station in Lagos, for example. (No affiliation with them; I'm working with a Ph.D. student studying this question.) I'd say that one advantage of ham is that you can operate it on much lower power equipment still - there's no such thing as a starlink HT yet, although we're starting to get close with cell phones with emergency satellite messaging. But starlink has a bandwidth advantage if you need to send photos or tunnel cell. Different capabilities - it's good to have both! AC3ME
  - mikece 2y ago
    "...there's no such thing as a starlink HT yet..." The FCC just gave emergency authorization for Starlink to enable direct-to-satellite service for T-Mobile customers in western North Carolina. It's my understanding that this is what Starlink was planning on releasing but they are doing a live beta right now. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/10/fcc-lets-starlink-provide-service-to-cell-phones-in-areas-hit-by-hurricane/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/10/fcc-lets-starlin...

velcrovan 2y ago

Ham radio and blogs are at similar stages of cultural relevance. There may be something the blogging community can learn from the ham community, though hopefully blogging survives as something more than an emergency-response phenomenon.

hilbert42 2y ago

I often wonder why amateur radio operators put up with the derogatory name ham because many are very skilled in electronics and they're anything but hams. I've always hated the term, even the term amateur has negative connotations that aren't warranted. I'd prefer the term experimental radio operator or such. I say that as someone who once held an amateur ticket (for quite some decades) which I got whilst I was still at school.

kylehotchkiss 2y ago
It’s impolite but the hobby is dominated by older men who sit on their ratios talking about their radios. Why would young people choose that as an interest when there are so many new STEM type things to do (programming, 3D printing, etc)
- hilbert42 2y ago
  It's not impolite to speak your mind, and my comments are not meant to offend. :-) You're right. When I used to participate in amateur radio as a teenager, those who were not involved—usually irritated wives and girlfriends—were apt to often repeat things like 'get off that radio and help me with the dishes', or 'they're always wasting time talking unintelligible gibberish', and in my mother's case 'stop mucking about and do your homework'. I remember the taunts and criticisms well. Listen to this YouTube audio of comedian Tony Hancock's Radio Ham. He wasn't an amateur but he summarized the prevailing attitude of many back then: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=stmSok14-IU https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=stmSok14-IU However, in recent years amateur radio operators have had their revenge—and it's come by the ton! With the advent of the internet Amateurs can now correctly point to not millions but billions of totally-addicted smartphone and internet users who waste endless hours texting, or talking/posting on social media—Facebook, WhatsApp, X, etc.—mostly inconsequential nonsense and drivel, or dealing in fake news that's damaging the social fabric of society. (BTW, I've no social media accounts, HN's my limit.) Right, the very thing past generations accused amateurs of doing is now not only done by billions of people but also for millions of them their involvement is far in excess of anything amateurs would have done pre-internet. As you would be aware, smartphone, social media and internet addiction has become a serious social problem. As an ex-amateur I'll put this on the record. Amateurs by virtue of their technical abilities in radio/electronics—skills that must meet a set minimum standard of proficiency as mandated by regulations/law by both governments and the UN's International Telecommunications Union (ITU)—are granted access to very valuable spectrum space. An Amateur radio license, which is only obtained after passing an examination, gives Amateurs exclusive access to many parts of the electromagnetic spectrum. In effect, Amateurs have had and still have exclusive communications channels that allow them to communicate to any part of the world whenever they feel like it so long as they do so within the terms of their license, which, in brief, boils down to not causing interference or disrupting other communication users/services. Even in this internet age this is a privilege that not even internet and social media users can boast about for they're always under the control—the fickle beck and call—of ISPs and Big Tech and the requirement that internet protocols and network hardware remain functional. On the other hand amateurs are always in full control of their stations (that's the edict set out in the terms of their licenses). It's why for over a century Amateurs have been called upon in emergencies whenever normal communications fail. As mentioned, my dislike of names Ham Radio and Amateur do not do justice to this longstanding and valuable service, they do not reflect the true extent of the pool of talent that exists within its members. Also, amateurs are a cliquish bunch with a language and etiquette of their own and that has very distinct advantages. For instance, decades ago I used to work in the prototype laboratory of one of RCA's divisions that manufactured telecommunications, radio and TV broadcast equipment and my boss, a brilliant electronics engineer and radio amateur who also helped establish the division, employed me over other applicants because I was a radio amateur. His experience was that when employing people with equal qualifications then selecting the one that also has an amateur ticket made the best sense, as often they had a diehard interest in electronics from a very young age and thus had a much better intrinsic/core understanding of the subject. I've frequently seen this scenario played out over the years. You ask 'Why would young people choose Amateur Radio as an interest when there are so many new STEM-type things to do (programming, 3D printing, etc.).' I'll answer that but I'll begin by saying Amateur Radio still has a strong following and many enthusiastic followers, but I'd agree that per capita it doesn’t attract the numbers it did in the pre-internet days (especially youngsters—and it needs new blood). There are several reasons for this: Until around 1970 those interested in electronics and who wanted it as a hobby at home had few options, that usually came down to repairing/building radios (sometimes TVs), and or Hi-Fi amplifiers. There were others, but that was mainly it. Thus, many youngsters gravitated to amateur radio, it was a sort of natural progression. For instance, the first radios I built were crystal sets, on one I picked up an amateur radio operator (by profession a grocery store manager) who lived about four miles away who I befriended, he taught me a lot. That led to me to passing my amateur ticket exam at age 14 and eventually to my career in electronics. By the early 1980s microprocessors became the rage, back then I had an advanced S100 system with a 8085/8086 combo, it also had a Z80 board, I had to program in Assembler to get its BIOS functioning. This 'new' electronics diluted the pool of those with an interest in electronics. Also, around that time the hype around computers was phenomenal. Amateur radio got drowned in the noise. Then a decade or so later the internet and later still other distractions, social media, access to online media etc. It wasn't only amateur radio that suffered declining numbers, also the 'new' tech had hijacked interest away from many other hobbies. So to your point about why one would choose Amateur Radio when there are so many others available. To answer that one has to ask what is it that drives a person's interest and what environment was he/she exposed to that nurtured that interest at an early age. If one has an interest in physics, that is how things really work then one has to get to grips with the hardware at its most fundamental level. One not only has to understand how semiconductors work but also resistors, capacitors and so, not only that but one must be fully fluent about how they operate. On the other hand, lounge-lizard programmers are glued to their screens programming in high-level languages, C et al, and often they don't know one end of a soldering iron from another. An amateur who doesn't get his hands dirty from hardware or the occasional belt from a high voltage anode isn't worthy of the name. Many of us who are interested in the physics side of radio had to become good programmers whether we liked it or not. For that, engineering at uni made me learn Fortran, and later various Assemblers, Lisp and C and a smattering of others. One of my amateur friends was so good at machine code that he could just scan pages of a hex dump then make a comment such as 'I'll just change value at hex addr 'ABCD' from 'xx' to 'yy', that'll save me having to change R53 from 270kΩ to 330kΩ (I never had that level of patience). It's this inherent hands-on feel for electronics at its most fundamental grassroots level that often gives Amateurs the edge. You'd be surprised how many influential people in tech have an amateur ticket filed away somewhere even if they never mention it. And you'll often find that their interest began when they were kids. It goes with the territory. I'm sorry that Amateur Radio has been somewhat lost in the noise, the fact is that it has many facets some of which are highly technical and many youngsters are unaware of it. I'd venture that Amateur Radio is still of importance, unfortunately, this post long so I'm unable to develop a supporting argument, I'll just give an illustration instead. Your smartphone is by far the most advanced and sophisticated technology that you now own (years ago, I used to say that about television sets). Here's some rhetorical questions for which no answers are required. How much do you actually know about the working of your smartphone? You may have a rough idea of the goings-on at OSI levels from say levels 4 to 7, perhaps even 3. but what about levels 1 and 2? Well, let me say that to have a reasonable working understanding of those levels/hardware you need to know some quantum mechanics (at least at its practical level such as how quantum tunneling works). If you don't then you can't design the semiconductors to run the device. Such understanding is crucial in both the microprocessors and the extremely low noise amplifiers that are used in the phone's RF stages, especially the GPS receiver. Also, one needs an understanding of electrical principles including Maxwell's equations, then there's thermodynamics—one has to understand how thermal noise occurs in low noise amplifiers, the WiFi, mobile and GPS receivers. One must implicitly understand the relationship between bandwidth and noise—the thermal noise equation†, and so on. I'll bet many who think they understand the workings of a smartphone have never heard of said equation let alone having ever derived it from first principles. What's this to do with Amateur radio? Well, the history of AR (and comms generally) is littered with the struggle to make HW perform better and various forms of noise are the enemy, amateurs instinctively understand this struggle, and you'll often find that engineers who work with noise in RF circuits have Amateur Radio backgrounds, again it often comes with the territory. AR comes in many levels. And many of those who natter on air with seemingly little to say frequently have a deep understanding of the above topics. Whilst this understanding is usually honed fine during tertiary education you'll often find the roots of their understanding began with Amateur Radio. AR is what one makes of it, it's a hobby with a truly vast array of diverse technical aspects, and with it comes the enjoyable camaraderie of fellow amateurs. † V(noise)=(4kTRΔf)^0.5, https://www.qsl.net/va3iul/Noise/Understanding%20Noise%20Figure.pdf https://www.qsl.net/va3iul/Noise/Understanding%20Noise%20Fig...

MagicMoonlight 2y ago

I don’t see it enduring much longer. Why would I want to pay a fortune and sit exams just to use a radio to say a standard test phrase to a stranger? I think it would be nice to have a radio but it just seems like too much effort for too little reward.

JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
I know nothing about ham radio but I’ve been looking to join this global community for the past few years. This thread and post did entice me to start my journey but you’re wrong on a few details: - the exam is cheap and easy as long as you study for a week (high-schoolers did it in the past) - in some countries, you don’t need to pay yearly fee to keep your ID thing (which is also cheap) - the effort doesn’t seem very hard Last but not least and it’s the most important for me: you can talk around the whole world without needing a phone maker or an ISP or any other kind of company filtering what and how you can talk as long as you respect global human rules. It’s like the last freedom that we have here since the newsgroups of the 80s/90s. You can send a global message without having to rely on a weird protocol sent through a black box (phone) relayed by an ISP. It’s the rawest form of global messaging out there.
agiacalone 2y ago
This is a pretty gross mischaracterization of ham radio. There are exams, sure. But the entry level one(s) are typically not that bad. Something a high-school grad could do in an afternoon. Fortune? Most exams now are free, although there are some clubs that charge a token fee (~$10 USD or so). Radios from China are cheap and cost around $25. Sure, the hobby can get really expensive, but it doesn't have to be. And "standard phrase" is not even accurate. Typically, people "ragchew" on repeaters with the Tech license, but that is not it either. Digital modes, RC/Model airplane control, satellite coms, APRS (GPS tracking), etc.