4 ms·

Why are people so obsessed with the ethnic of a slightly relevant guy from 500 years ago? Is there some relevance in this?

wpasc 2y ago
Agreed that his ethnicity is a silly topic to be discussed, but calling Christopher Columbus a "slightly" relevant guy definitely feels like a stretch.
- the_gorilla 2y ago
  Apparently discovering new islands isn't what it used to be.
- slightwinder 2y ago
  He was a small gear in a long chain of events. If not Columbus, someone else would likely have found the New World. It was the age of (Europeans) Discovery after all, where many people were sailing the world and finding new routes and lands.
  - lazyeye 2y ago
    This same logic applies to every discovery in all of human history.
    - Thiez 2y ago
      Sure. This is just Great Man theory [1] in action. It's a bit absurd, once you know about it you see it everywhere. It's especially distasteful when it's about people who 'discovered' places, because the next step was usually the subjugation or genocide of the people already living in the discovered place. But we still celebrate the explorers as heroes. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory
  - cafard 2y ago
    Indeed. Next thing somebody will be making a fuss about Isaac Newton.
  - borski 2y ago
    Sure. But it wasn’t someone else; it was Columbus. If it were someone else, I’m certain we’d be talking about them instead.
  - alephxyz 2y ago
    IIRC Cabot was trying to raise money for an expedition at the same time as Columbus and did reach continental America before him.
lern_too_spel 2y ago
Today is Columbus Day / Indigenous Peoples Day.
- slightwinder 2y ago
  Oh, that makes sense. Thank you.
dathinab 2y ago
idk. USA people seem to be the only ones obsessed with him sometimes to a point as treating him as a hero from their history also people often treat it as the beloved kind of "small person who know better even through everyone told them they where wrong and succeeded by not giving up" story but the funny thing is the more you learn about him the more you might realize how wrong all of this is firstly he hadn't had success because he knew better (and people didn't believe him) he had success because he insisted that his absurdly wrong calculations where correct and then had a absurd amount of luck. (In educated circles of that time not only was it well know that earth was a globe, it rough size was also known. The reason he believed he could sail to India was because he insisted that earth was _way_ smaller then it actual is (and also was believed to be in general back then). It's just people (including him!) through there was no additional landmass between the west of Portugal and ~east India. Consider sailing that route on a world where America is just more water... pretty much not viable with the tech of that time). Secondly if anything he was a villain, to a point even the Spanish Inquisition called him out for his bad behavior against native Americans... So I agree, no reason to give him any more attention then any of the many other half assed villains which lucked out in human history.
- krzyk 2y ago
  He is important because he changed the power dynamics of the old world. And as a result created probably the most powerful country in the world. I'm not American, and not from colonial power country, but it was significant.
- javajosh 2y ago
  I suspect that a lot of the recent dirt about Columbus comes from documents involving his (and his decedents) court case to assert ownership of the New World. In particular, I suspect that the most damning accusations come from briefs filed by opposing counsel: "In 1500, during his third voyage to the Americas, Columbus was arrested and dismissed from his posts. He and his sons, Diego and Fernando, then conducted a lengthy series of court cases against the Castilian crown, known as the pleitos colombinos, alleging that the Crown had illegally reneged on its contractual obligations to Columbus and his heirs.[93] The Columbus family had some success in their first litigation, as a judgment of 1511 confirmed Diego's position as viceroy but reduced his powers. Diego resumed litigation in 1512, which lasted until 1536, and further disputes initiated by heirs continued until 1790." -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus 280 years of legal battle is going to be a treasure trove of dirt, if you want to find it. As for "why now" and "why does it matter what his heritage is" I think it has everything to do with the cultural milieu. Modern white liberals hate their heritage which they characterize as ancestors of colonizers, slave owners, and exploiters. If Columbus was Jewish this gives left-wing anti-Semites extra ammunition against Jews. It aligns the deep hatred for colonizers with deep hatred for Israel for its actions in it's war with Hamas.

wpasc 2y ago

Agreed that his ethnicity is a silly topic to be discussed, but calling Christopher Columbus a "slightly" relevant guy definitely feels like a stretch.

the_gorilla 2y ago
Apparently discovering new islands isn't what it used to be.
slightwinder 2y ago
He was a small gear in a long chain of events. If not Columbus, someone else would likely have found the New World. It was the age of (Europeans) Discovery after all, where many people were sailing the world and finding new routes and lands.
- lazyeye 2y ago
  This same logic applies to every discovery in all of human history.
  - Thiez 2y ago
    Sure. This is just Great Man theory [1] in action. It's a bit absurd, once you know about it you see it everywhere. It's especially distasteful when it's about people who 'discovered' places, because the next step was usually the subjugation or genocide of the people already living in the discovered place. But we still celebrate the explorers as heroes. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_man_theory
- cafard 2y ago
  Indeed. Next thing somebody will be making a fuss about Isaac Newton.
- borski 2y ago
  Sure. But it wasn’t someone else; it was Columbus. If it were someone else, I’m certain we’d be talking about them instead.
- alephxyz 2y ago
  IIRC Cabot was trying to raise money for an expedition at the same time as Columbus and did reach continental America before him.

lern_too_spel 2y ago

Today is Columbus Day / Indigenous Peoples Day.

slightwinder 2y ago
Oh, that makes sense. Thank you.

dathinab 2y ago

idk. USA people seem to be the only ones obsessed with him sometimes to a point as treating him as a hero from their history also people often treat it as the beloved kind of "small person who know better even through everyone told them they where wrong and succeeded by not giving up" story but the funny thing is the more you learn about him the more you might realize how wrong all of this is firstly he hadn't had success because he knew better (and people didn't believe him) he had success because he insisted that his absurdly wrong calculations where correct and then had a absurd amount of luck. (In educated circles of that time not only was it well know that earth was a globe, it rough size was also known. The reason he believed he could sail to India was because he insisted that earth was _way_ smaller then it actual is (and also was believed to be in general back then). It's just people (including him!) through there was no additional landmass between the west of Portugal and ~east India. Consider sailing that route on a world where America is just more water... pretty much not viable with the tech of that time). Secondly if anything he was a villain, to a point even the Spanish Inquisition called him out for his bad behavior against native Americans... So I agree, no reason to give him any more attention then any of the many other half assed villains which lucked out in human history.

krzyk 2y ago
He is important because he changed the power dynamics of the old world. And as a result created probably the most powerful country in the world. I'm not American, and not from colonial power country, but it was significant.
javajosh 2y ago
I suspect that a lot of the recent dirt about Columbus comes from documents involving his (and his decedents) court case to assert ownership of the New World. In particular, I suspect that the most damning accusations come from briefs filed by opposing counsel: "In 1500, during his third voyage to the Americas, Columbus was arrested and dismissed from his posts. He and his sons, Diego and Fernando, then conducted a lengthy series of court cases against the Castilian crown, known as the pleitos colombinos, alleging that the Crown had illegally reneged on its contractual obligations to Columbus and his heirs.[93] The Columbus family had some success in their first litigation, as a judgment of 1511 confirmed Diego's position as viceroy but reduced his powers. Diego resumed litigation in 1512, which lasted until 1536, and further disputes initiated by heirs continued until 1790." -https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus 280 years of legal battle is going to be a treasure trove of dirt, if you want to find it. As for "why now" and "why does it matter what his heritage is" I think it has everything to do with the cultural milieu. Modern white liberals hate their heritage which they characterize as ancestors of colonizers, slave owners, and exploiters. If Columbus was Jewish this gives left-wing anti-Semites extra ammunition against Jews. It aligns the deep hatred for colonizers with deep hatred for Israel for its actions in it's war with Hamas.