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I'm not really sure how you expected the mantra of use mature technologies that are stable, mostly unchanging, and have staying power could have turned out any

by Spivak 2y ago

I'm not really sure how you expected the mantra of use mature technologies that are stable, mostly unchanging, and have staying power could have turned out any other way. React Hooks which required a partial rewrite for every code base happened in React 16-17 which was in 2020. This is neither a boring or stable technology to build a business on. This doesn't mean it's bad but it doesn't survive the "I can pick the code up after a few years and get it up to date with minimal effort" test. Write boring code is about going down paths that are well troddened enough that they paved a sidewalk which isn't going anywhere any time soon. Most of the frontend world can't even conceive of an LTS release right now. I genuinely don't understand the author, choosing boring technology is about making choices so that that platform on which you stand is rock-solid. It's easier to exercise fun, creativity, and new ideas on such a platform because there aren't any sharp edges and you can start pushing a technology. The examples with introducing Kotlin or Python/PL seemingly aren't motivated by anything other than "they're new." What problem are they solving and do you have that problem?

JohnBooty 2y ago
It's easier to exercise fun, creativity, and new ideas on such a platform because there aren't any sharp edges and you can start pushing a technology. Yeah. I don't interpret "use boring tech" as "literally don't use anything newer than 10 years old" or whatever. You absolutely can/should/must use more exciting things if they are relevant to whatever unique problem you're trying to solve. But everything else possible in your stack (particularly foundational elements) should be as boring as possible - i.e. unless you are specifically innovating in the area of RDBMS systems, you should be choosing a "boring" existing RDBMS.
root_axis 2y ago
> React Hooks which required a partial rewrite for every code base happened in React 16-17 which was in 2020 Except it was not required. Class components still work exactly as they did back then.
- imbnwa 2y ago
  A problem might be major libraries moving on to Hooks-based interfaces
  - root_axis 2y ago
    The same reasoning applies. Don't upgrade if you don't need the new features.
    - Spivak 2y ago
      If your answer to how to make it stable is never update (including your dependencies) then you're not working on a stable technology. Stable is being able to set up unattended upgrades on Ubuntu LTS fearlessly. When was the last time you worried about your kernel update?
      - root_axis 2y ago
        > If your answer to how to make it stable is never update then you're not working on a stable technology. I didn't say "never update", I said that if you don't need the new features then don't upgrade. If you do need the new features then I don't understand what the problem is. > Stable is being able to set up unattended upgrades on Ubuntu fearlessly. lol what? I've never had a system survive an Ubuntu upgrade without breaking something.
        netdevnet 2y ago
        Point is many of these libraries don't just let you get latest without rewriting some of your code. Multiple that by 10-20 and you are in for a real treat.
        root_axis 2y ago
        > Point is many of these libraries don't just let you get latest without rewriting some of your code. True of every software platform in existence. On the scale of upgrade complexity, react is a walk in the park compared to e.g. everything in the android and ios world, or e.g. any application written for a desktop platform. Ever tried upgrading a C++ app? It's a nightmare beyond anything I've ever faced in my career. I've never worked with Rust in a professional environment, but I've been a big fan of it for my personal projects for some years now, however, the introduction of async was a massive disruption to the entire ecosystem. In my opinion, complaining about JS complexity in particular reflects ignorance of the wider software world.

by Spivak 2y ago

JohnBooty 2y ago

It's easier to exercise fun, creativity, and new ideas on such a platform because there aren't any sharp edges and you can start pushing a technology. Yeah. I don't interpret "use boring tech" as "literally don't use anything newer than 10 years old" or whatever. You absolutely can/should/must use more exciting things if they are relevant to whatever unique problem you're trying to solve. But everything else possible in your stack (particularly foundational elements) should be as boring as possible - i.e. unless you are specifically innovating in the area of RDBMS systems, you should be choosing a "boring" existing RDBMS.

root_axis 2y ago

> React Hooks which required a partial rewrite for every code base happened in React 16-17 which was in 2020 Except it was not required. Class components still work exactly as they did back then.

imbnwa 2y ago
A problem might be major libraries moving on to Hooks-based interfaces
- root_axis 2y ago
  The same reasoning applies. Don't upgrade if you don't need the new features.
  - Spivak 2y ago
    If your answer to how to make it stable is never update (including your dependencies) then you're not working on a stable technology. Stable is being able to set up unattended upgrades on Ubuntu LTS fearlessly. When was the last time you worried about your kernel update?
    - root_axis 2y ago
      > If your answer to how to make it stable is never update then you're not working on a stable technology. I didn't say "never update", I said that if you don't need the new features then don't upgrade. If you do need the new features then I don't understand what the problem is. > Stable is being able to set up unattended upgrades on Ubuntu fearlessly. lol what? I've never had a system survive an Ubuntu upgrade without breaking something.
      - netdevnet 2y ago
        Point is many of these libraries don't just let you get latest without rewriting some of your code. Multiple that by 10-20 and you are in for a real treat.
        root_axis 2y ago
        > Point is many of these libraries don't just let you get latest without rewriting some of your code. True of every software platform in existence. On the scale of upgrade complexity, react is a walk in the park compared to e.g. everything in the android and ios world, or e.g. any application written for a desktop platform. Ever tried upgrading a C++ app? It's a nightmare beyond anything I've ever faced in my career. I've never worked with Rust in a professional environment, but I've been a big fan of it for my personal projects for some years now, however, the introduction of async was a massive disruption to the entire ecosystem. In my opinion, complaining about JS complexity in particular reflects ignorance of the wider software world.