4 ms·

There is not such thing as "Jewish" DNA. Is a culture and religion, but not a fully different race. Some genes could be in the past more represented, but it was

There is not such thing as "Jewish" DNA. Is a culture and religion, but not a fully different race. Some genes could be in the past more represented, but it was just "Mediterranean dotation". A mix of European, African and Asian. Today is much more mixed fortunately.

grumple 2y ago
You are wrong on this point. Genetically, Jews are as distinct as any other race (and the world's obsession with Jews mean that you can find plenty of studies on Jewish genetics). Jews take DNA tests and get marked as "Ashekanzi Jewish" (or other Jewish type) on tests like 23andme.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Genetically, Jews are as distinct as any other race. By what measure? And how is "race" defined?
  - grumple 2y ago
    There are many definitions, but the only one that excludes Jews is pure colorism (and also ignorance of the different types of Jews / mixing that has occurred).
dumbo-octopus 2y ago
What would you call that genetic information which was passed down from Israel to his twelve children’s tribes?
- pvaldes 2y ago
  I would call it barely distinguishable from the genetic information from their close neighbors. Now compare it with DNA from native Australians for example and you will find a much different picture. Having in mind that we share a majority of our genes with other mammals, and almost all with chimps, so the range of allowed variation among people is in itself small.
  - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
    The idea being that since you believe it is “barely distinguishable”, it actually does not exist? Odd argument.
    - pvaldes 2y ago
      To exists is one thing. To be biologically relevant to deserve a new entire category is another very different. To start, this genes aren't exclusive from the group. And it is not a monofiletic group anymore, because is a religious one and anybody can join it. So from a "taxonomic" point of view is not what we would call a "natural group", speaking genetically. Is not different than claiming that there is a "Christian DNA". Biologically it does not have any sense.
      - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        This argument is very detached from reality. The Jewish tribe is defined as being descended from Israel, with folks independently joining as a rather rare corner case. On the other hand, Christians are defined to be those people who have heard the gospel and chosen to accept Jesus as their Lord. It’s as if you said my family didn’t share DNA with me because an adoption or two had occurred over the centuries. It’s a bizarre argument that keeps coming up here, I don’t know what the real underlying root of it is.
        juunpp 2y ago
        pvaldes is saying that biologically/genetically, the difference is irrelevant. And it is because we're >99% identical. https://www.genome.gov/dna-day/15-ways/human-genomic-variation https://www.genome.gov/dna-day/15-ways/human-genomic-variati...
        dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        If he were to be saying that, he’d be terribly misinformed. Slight specific genetic changes can have absolutely massive impacts, hand waving “ninety nine percent of us is a banana!”-type speak is brain-dead. I’ll let him speak for himself.
andai 2y ago
If you can't prove family connection with paperwork, you can emigrate to Israel by means of DNA test which proves to the government that you are Jewish. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5034383/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5034383/ Couldn't find a page on the government website, but I remember reading about it there in the not too distant past.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  That doesn't seem to be quite how it works; apparently the DNA test by itself is not sufficient, and one does need some form of paperwork. Per an explanation by a private law office: A DNA test can be used to obtain Israeli citizenship, but this is reserved to prove that a person is the child of an Israeli citizen. According to Israeli law, if a child is born to an Israeli mother or father abroad, they can be granted Israeli citizenship. The DNA test is used to authorize this, proving this familial link. We discuss more about obtaining a paternity test in Israel in another article. In some very rare cases, a DNA test can be used to prove their relation to a Jewish parent, sibling or grandparent, even though the applicant doesn’t have documents proving this relationship, but said person has to have documents verifying that they are Jewish. https://lawoffice.org.il/en/israeli-citizenship-dna-test/ https://lawoffice.org.il/en/israeli-citizenship-dna-test/

grumple 2y ago

You are wrong on this point. Genetically, Jews are as distinct as any other race (and the world's obsession with Jews mean that you can find plenty of studies on Jewish genetics). Jews take DNA tests and get marked as "Ashekanzi Jewish" (or other Jewish type) on tests like 23andme.

aguaviva 2y ago
Genetically, Jews are as distinct as any other race. By what measure? And how is "race" defined?
- grumple 2y ago
  There are many definitions, but the only one that excludes Jews is pure colorism (and also ignorance of the different types of Jews / mixing that has occurred).

dumbo-octopus 2y ago

What would you call that genetic information which was passed down from Israel to his twelve children’s tribes?

pvaldes 2y ago
I would call it barely distinguishable from the genetic information from their close neighbors. Now compare it with DNA from native Australians for example and you will find a much different picture. Having in mind that we share a majority of our genes with other mammals, and almost all with chimps, so the range of allowed variation among people is in itself small.
- dumbo-octopus 2y ago
  The idea being that since you believe it is “barely distinguishable”, it actually does not exist? Odd argument.
  - pvaldes 2y ago
    To exists is one thing. To be biologically relevant to deserve a new entire category is another very different. To start, this genes aren't exclusive from the group. And it is not a monofiletic group anymore, because is a religious one and anybody can join it. So from a "taxonomic" point of view is not what we would call a "natural group", speaking genetically. Is not different than claiming that there is a "Christian DNA". Biologically it does not have any sense.
    - dumbo-octopus 2y ago
      This argument is very detached from reality. The Jewish tribe is defined as being descended from Israel, with folks independently joining as a rather rare corner case. On the other hand, Christians are defined to be those people who have heard the gospel and chosen to accept Jesus as their Lord. It’s as if you said my family didn’t share DNA with me because an adoption or two had occurred over the centuries. It’s a bizarre argument that keeps coming up here, I don’t know what the real underlying root of it is.
      - juunpp 2y ago
        pvaldes is saying that biologically/genetically, the difference is irrelevant. And it is because we're >99% identical. https://www.genome.gov/dna-day/15-ways/human-genomic-variation https://www.genome.gov/dna-day/15-ways/human-genomic-variati...
        dumbo-octopus 2y ago
        If he were to be saying that, he’d be terribly misinformed. Slight specific genetic changes can have absolutely massive impacts, hand waving “ninety nine percent of us is a banana!”-type speak is brain-dead. I’ll let him speak for himself.

andai 2y ago

If you can't prove family connection with paperwork, you can emigrate to Israel by means of DNA test which proves to the government that you are Jewish. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5034383/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5034383/ Couldn't find a page on the government website, but I remember reading about it there in the not too distant past.

aguaviva 2y ago
That doesn't seem to be quite how it works; apparently the DNA test by itself is not sufficient, and one does need some form of paperwork. Per an explanation by a private law office: A DNA test can be used to obtain Israeli citizenship, but this is reserved to prove that a person is the child of an Israeli citizen. According to Israeli law, if a child is born to an Israeli mother or father abroad, they can be granted Israeli citizenship. The DNA test is used to authorize this, proving this familial link. We discuss more about obtaining a paternity test in Israel in another article. In some very rare cases, a DNA test can be used to prove their relation to a Jewish parent, sibling or grandparent, even though the applicant doesn’t have documents proving this relationship, but said person has to have documents verifying that they are Jewish. https://lawoffice.org.il/en/israeli-citizenship-dna-test/ https://lawoffice.org.il/en/israeli-citizenship-dna-test/