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I am not actively following this field, but I had somehow gotten the impression XMPP is a dying protocol. Any opinions on that? I have also looked for VoIP pro

I am not actively following this field, but I had somehow gotten the impression XMPP is a dying protocol. Any opinions on that? I have also looked for VoIP providers offering competitive per minute rates to European phone numbers with no monthly fee. I did not find much. VoIP seems to be somewhat popular in Germany and there is no lack of providers. But their contracts include a German phone number which I don't need and cannot even legally get because I don't live there. I don't think SIP vs XMPP would matter for me.

hot_gril 2y ago
Yeah. I used to work with it a lot. It basically has similar problems as email but without the momentum. It's complicated to run an XMPP server that actually has all the features you'd want, including properly configured C2S and S2S auth, and even then you're missing important client-side features unless you get clients in agreement (see: iChat). Imo they needed to be stricter about what constitutes a standard XMPP server, especially with security-related stuff. Look at how browsers managed to ban old TLS versions and discourage plain HTTP. And less important but just annoying, XML was a mistake that they keep defending. Really only made sense for rich text message body, which nowadays nobody cares about either. I've seen a project where they just shoved JSON into it and called it a day.
pabs3 2y ago
For me I had XMPP accounts with zero usage until the Freenode IRC network imploded, then a few channels moved to XMPP and I joined a couple more. That said, IRC is still more active than XMPP for me.
- doughecka 2y ago
  Wait, what happened to freenode?
  - AAAAaccountAAAA 2y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode#Ownership_change_and_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode#Ownership_change_and_... It is still kind of around, but it became a completely different kind of a network under its new ownership. Most channels went to libera.chat, but others went elsewhere.
zaik 2y ago
IETF Standards don't get a large marketing budget assigned to them like many other messengers have, but there are quite a few community projects which are actively developed. Off the top of my head there is Conversations on Android (gratis when you get it from F-Droid), Monal on iOS, Gajim on the desktop, Dino, Movim, Profanity, converse.js, Prosody, ejabberd, ...
bertman 2y ago
>but I had somehow gotten the impression XMPP is a dying protocol. Any opinions on that? Not at all. Have a look at https://snikket.org https://snikket.org for example. This let's you set up your own XMPP server that "just works" in a couple of minutes, and then you can hand out invites to your friends and family, so that they can install the Snikket app (Android or iOS) and are automatically registered and in your contacts in a few taps, without them even needing to know what XMPP is. The server is the well-known Prosody, dockerized, the Android app is a re-skinned Conversations, the iOS client is based on Siskin IM. And just like that you have a working, private, self-hosted, end-to-end encrypted cross-platform messaging system that also support a/v calls out of the box. It really is pretty cool.
_chu1 2y ago
It pretty much is. You will find that barely anyone actively uses XMPP, let alone anyone you know.

hot_gril 2y ago

Yeah. I used to work with it a lot. It basically has similar problems as email but without the momentum. It's complicated to run an XMPP server that actually has all the features you'd want, including properly configured C2S and S2S auth, and even then you're missing important client-side features unless you get clients in agreement (see: iChat). Imo they needed to be stricter about what constitutes a standard XMPP server, especially with security-related stuff. Look at how browsers managed to ban old TLS versions and discourage plain HTTP. And less important but just annoying, XML was a mistake that they keep defending. Really only made sense for rich text message body, which nowadays nobody cares about either. I've seen a project where they just shoved JSON into it and called it a day.

pabs3 2y ago

For me I had XMPP accounts with zero usage until the Freenode IRC network imploded, then a few channels moved to XMPP and I joined a couple more. That said, IRC is still more active than XMPP for me.

doughecka 2y ago
Wait, what happened to freenode?
- AAAAaccountAAAA 2y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode#Ownership_change_and_conflict https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freenode#Ownership_change_and_... It is still kind of around, but it became a completely different kind of a network under its new ownership. Most channels went to libera.chat, but others went elsewhere.

zaik 2y ago

IETF Standards don't get a large marketing budget assigned to them like many other messengers have, but there are quite a few community projects which are actively developed. Off the top of my head there is Conversations on Android (gratis when you get it from F-Droid), Monal on iOS, Gajim on the desktop, Dino, Movim, Profanity, converse.js, Prosody, ejabberd, ...

bertman 2y ago

>but I had somehow gotten the impression XMPP is a dying protocol. Any opinions on that? Not at all. Have a look at https://snikket.org https://snikket.org for example. This let's you set up your own XMPP server that "just works" in a couple of minutes, and then you can hand out invites to your friends and family, so that they can install the Snikket app (Android or iOS) and are automatically registered and in your contacts in a few taps, without them even needing to know what XMPP is. The server is the well-known Prosody, dockerized, the Android app is a re-skinned Conversations, the iOS client is based on Siskin IM. And just like that you have a working, private, self-hosted, end-to-end encrypted cross-platform messaging system that also support a/v calls out of the box. It really is pretty cool.

_chu1 2y ago

It pretty much is. You will find that barely anyone actively uses XMPP, let alone anyone you know.