5 ms·

Well let's not use it anymore if I agree on principle, computer science itself is a new field, so not sure how deeply entrenched it really is.

by soheil 2y ago

scooke 2y ago
Can you give an example or two of the type of terminology you have in mind? Something like first tier, or high level, or primary, or what? Almost any term that I could think of still carries with it a sense of politics. Perhaps someone from the first class citizen language, like English or French doesn’t really notice this dynamic, but someone who uses these other languages sure notice the lack of importance, or urgency, when they can’t live digitally with their own language. Whether or not they use the term,” political”, it’s still there. But I’m curious to see what your suggestions might include.
- soheil 2y ago
  Integral Compatible Mainstream
layer8 2y ago
It is very well-established and commonly used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-class_citizen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-class_citizen https://www.google.com/search?q=%22first-class+citizen%22+site:stackexchange.com&tbs=li:1 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22first-class+citizen%22+si... https://www.google.com/search?q=%22first-class+citizen%22+site:www.reddit.com&tbs=li:1 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22first-class+citizen%22+si... People don’t perceive it as a political term.
- soheil 2y ago
  I suspected what I was pointing out a tad too nuanced for hn, nevertheless, the word citizen very much has a political implication although not entirely, it can certainly stir up thoughts of being a citizen of a given country or not. First-class citizen has even more charged political implication, the image of people living in a ghetto v lush suburbs immediately comes to mind. After all you guys pushed to change master to main, but no way there is anything remotely true about using literal words that since the ancient Greek times have been used to mean a very specific thing and only that thing.
  - layer8 2y ago
    Changing “master” to “main” is similarly ridiculous as seeing “first-class citizen” as a problematic term, if you ask me.

Well let's not use it anymore if I agree on principle, computer science itself is a new field, so not sure how deeply entrenched it really is.

by soheil 2y ago

Well let's not use it anymore if I agree on principle, computer science itself is a new field, so not sure how deeply entrenched it really is.

scooke 2y ago

Can you give an example or two of the type of terminology you have in mind? Something like first tier, or high level, or primary, or what? Almost any term that I could think of still carries with it a sense of politics. Perhaps someone from the first class citizen language, like English or French doesn’t really notice this dynamic, but someone who uses these other languages sure notice the lack of importance, or urgency, when they can’t live digitally with their own language. Whether or not they use the term,” political”, it’s still there. But I’m curious to see what your suggestions might include.

soheil 2y ago
Integral Compatible Mainstream

layer8 2y ago

It is very well-established and commonly used. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-class_citizen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-class_citizen https://www.google.com/search?q=%22first-class+citizen%22+site:stackexchange.com&tbs=li:1 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22first-class+citizen%22+si... https://www.google.com/search?q=%22first-class+citizen%22+site:www.reddit.com&tbs=li:1 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22first-class+citizen%22+si... People don’t perceive it as a political term.

soheil 2y ago
I suspected what I was pointing out a tad too nuanced for hn, nevertheless, the word citizen very much has a political implication although not entirely, it can certainly stir up thoughts of being a citizen of a given country or not. First-class citizen has even more charged political implication, the image of people living in a ghetto v lush suburbs immediately comes to mind. After all you guys pushed to change master to main, but no way there is anything remotely true about using literal words that since the ancient Greek times have been used to mean a very specific thing and only that thing.
- layer8 2y ago
  Changing “master” to “main” is similarly ridiculous as seeing “first-class citizen” as a problematic term, if you ask me.