7 ms·

You need better tooling. My editor can highlight all references using the type checker.

by throw4950sh06 2y ago

evoke4908 2y ago
> Someone shouldn’t have to use source inspection assistive coding tools to parse the code you write
- ruszki 2y ago
  This is nonsense. You can parse every code with simple Notepad, if you have time. You don’t need to use even search, if you wish. Or you can make your life easier, and use tools which helps you. Once again, regardless of codebase.
  - achierius 2y ago
    "If you have time" is the operative point here. The idea is to make it efficient to quickly search for occurrences. So then you get back to the LSP question -- but for larger codebases I can tell you, those don't always work as well as you'd hope. I don't use 'ii' but it's admittedly much easier to just `rg` for variables than hope my editor plugin decides to work today.
    - strken 2y ago
      In general I agree with you, but in the specific case of loop variables, how much code do you need to search through? How big is your loop if you need to reach for rg to understand it?
chaboud 2y ago
“You need better tooling” is inconsiderate of others. Sometimes you’re in a browser reading over a CR, or you’re sitting at someone else’s machine, or debugging an emergency via a smartphone. Whatever the case, is it really that hard to use a two-letter loop counter? Try it sometime. When building at scale, it just makes sense to be considerate of diversity and do the little things to that make life easier for others.
- throw4950sh06 2y ago
  When building at scale, it's not possible to rely on stuff like "everybody should name the iterators differently than it's normally done". It's not inconsiderate, we are doing a job. If you can't do your job, you don't have place in my team. And properly using an IDE is definitely part of the job. What are you using that can't open web VSCode that has all these features?
  - chaboud 2y ago
    There's a big difference between "rely on" and "be considerate of". I'll take from the recently-created throw-away account that you know this already, and, based on this interaction, I don't think I mind not having a place in your team.
    - throw4950sh06 2y ago
      As a manager of a large engineering organization, I'm unfortunately forced to not be considerate in order to make the org scale to dozens/hundreds of people. Proper usage of tools is crucial and I spend considerable resources to teach the engineers in my org about the tools we use. We took a great deal of effort to make the dev experience full featured, accessible and universal. You click a button and get a web browser based IDE where you have everything ready, connected to a cloud computer with a full dev env that mirrors our prod env; that from any branch and the button is right there in pull request UI. There is no reason why someone in this org should require everyone to write double letter iterator var names just because they couldn't be bothered to play the video where I taught how to use the advanced code search and the feature could be available to them in less than a minute of fooling around if they tried. On this scale, following standards is absolutely necessary. If my engineer has to stop and think "but wait, in this company they do it differently" - this times 150 people I currently manage - then I failed at my job. Some devs hated me when I came into this (much smaller back then) company few years ago and the first step I did was to put a global linter and formatter there. They were angry about how they would format it better than the formatter. Well that's nice - but that doesn't scale to hundreds of people. People make mistakes, stop caring, have different opinions... And all these questions in their minds are again my failure at my job. It's my job to answer these once and forever and to make it easy to follow the rule. While this is a personal anecdote, I was a large corporate principal engineer for many years and I am mirroring what I saw working there. I can't say this approach to making software engineering work at scale is uncommon. Please note that here I'm talking about working at a job, usually for very good money. Nothing of this applies to personal projects, most open source projects and so on. In these cases I'm very much on your side.

You need better tooling. My editor can highlight all references using the type checker.

evoke4908 2y ago

> Someone shouldn’t have to use source inspection assistive coding tools to parse the code you write

ruszki 2y ago
This is nonsense. You can parse every code with simple Notepad, if you have time. You don’t need to use even search, if you wish. Or you can make your life easier, and use tools which helps you. Once again, regardless of codebase.
- achierius 2y ago
  "If you have time" is the operative point here. The idea is to make it efficient to quickly search for occurrences. So then you get back to the LSP question -- but for larger codebases I can tell you, those don't always work as well as you'd hope. I don't use 'ii' but it's admittedly much easier to just `rg` for variables than hope my editor plugin decides to work today.
  - strken 2y ago
    In general I agree with you, but in the specific case of loop variables, how much code do you need to search through? How big is your loop if you need to reach for rg to understand it?

chaboud 2y ago

“You need better tooling” is inconsiderate of others. Sometimes you’re in a browser reading over a CR, or you’re sitting at someone else’s machine, or debugging an emergency via a smartphone. Whatever the case, is it really that hard to use a two-letter loop counter? Try it sometime. When building at scale, it just makes sense to be considerate of diversity and do the little things to that make life easier for others.

throw4950sh06 2y ago
When building at scale, it's not possible to rely on stuff like "everybody should name the iterators differently than it's normally done". It's not inconsiderate, we are doing a job. If you can't do your job, you don't have place in my team. And properly using an IDE is definitely part of the job. What are you using that can't open web VSCode that has all these features?
- chaboud 2y ago
  There's a big difference between "rely on" and "be considerate of". I'll take from the recently-created throw-away account that you know this already, and, based on this interaction, I don't think I mind not having a place in your team.
  - throw4950sh06 2y ago
    As a manager of a large engineering organization, I'm unfortunately forced to not be considerate in order to make the org scale to dozens/hundreds of people. Proper usage of tools is crucial and I spend considerable resources to teach the engineers in my org about the tools we use. We took a great deal of effort to make the dev experience full featured, accessible and universal. You click a button and get a web browser based IDE where you have everything ready, connected to a cloud computer with a full dev env that mirrors our prod env; that from any branch and the button is right there in pull request UI. There is no reason why someone in this org should require everyone to write double letter iterator var names just because they couldn't be bothered to play the video where I taught how to use the advanced code search and the feature could be available to them in less than a minute of fooling around if they tried. On this scale, following standards is absolutely necessary. If my engineer has to stop and think "but wait, in this company they do it differently" - this times 150 people I currently manage - then I failed at my job. Some devs hated me when I came into this (much smaller back then) company few years ago and the first step I did was to put a global linter and formatter there. They were angry about how they would format it better than the formatter. Well that's nice - but that doesn't scale to hundreds of people. People make mistakes, stop caring, have different opinions... And all these questions in their minds are again my failure at my job. It's my job to answer these once and forever and to make it easy to follow the rule. While this is a personal anecdote, I was a large corporate principal engineer for many years and I am mirroring what I saw working there. I can't say this approach to making software engineering work at scale is uncommon. Please note that here I'm talking about working at a job, usually for very good money. Nothing of this applies to personal projects, most open source projects and so on. In these cases I'm very much on your side.