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It is a bit interesting and telling though how no one ever says they went sober and regretted it, or an ex-teetotaller saying they picked up drinking and it was

by ak_111 2y ago

It is a bit interesting and telling though how no one ever says they went sober and regretted it, or an ex-teetotaller saying they picked up drinking and it was the best decision they ever made and wish they did it sooner.... but you almost always hear the inverse of these stories in such threads.

AngryData 2y ago
Im sure plenty of people feel that way, but they have no reason to go around telling everyone that, especially when many other people will argue against them and admonish them for it.
- lolinder 2y ago
  Do you have a reason why you're pretty sure plenty of people feel that way? The causal mechanism you're proposing for their silence—chiming in and getting admonished for it—would lead evidence that I don't see. Unless you're suggesting that people just assume they'll get chided?
homebrewer 2y ago
I went sober for many years and decided it was not for me (i.e. regretted it). Now... look at my username, it's there for a reason. This site is a massive echo chamber where you hear the same things over and over again, just like any other one.
- ak_111 2y ago
  Interesting why did you regret it? Is there anything you miss about it?
  - cogman10 2y ago
    Getting buzzed is fun and relaxing. The issue with the original framing is people that go sober are almost certainly doing it because of the negatives of alcohol. The other reason you don't hear the opposite is because most people realize alcoholism is a thing. Nobody is going to advocate someone needs to drink to be happy. Drinking is not for everyone. These not shame in sobriety.
    - ak_111 2y ago
      Yes that's my point, it is very telling that nobody talks about it because it is a sign that alcohol is mostly a negative thing and has negative impact on people's life. If it wasn't we would be hearing far more from ex-teetotalers how much more their life improved after taking up alcohol the way you hear from people who get sober.
      - cogman10 2y ago
        Respectfully, I believe you've missed my point. > it is very telling that nobody talks about it because it is a sign that alcohol is mostly a negative thing and has negative impact on people's life. Alcohol can be a very negative thing. Nobody denies that. Similarly, opiates can be very negative things. However, opiates are not always negative and neither is alcohol. With most psychoactive drugs, how bad they are depends entirely on how much they are impacting the life of the user. And, as with most psychoactive drugs, alcohol is enjoyable to consume. It's not 100% a negative thing. > If it wasn't we would be hearing far more from ex-teetotalers how much more their life improved after taking up alcohol the way you hear from people who get sober. You hear from vegans all the time about the benefits of veganism, you don't often hear from ex-vegans. Does that mean consuming meat/animal products is mostly negatives? You hear pretty frequently from converts to a faith about the benefits of that faith, less frequently you hear from ex-members about the benefits of leaving. Does that mean there are no negatives to faith? Crystal healers will tell you all about the benefits of putting topaz on top of random things, you don't often hear from ex-crystal healers about the negatives of buying topaz. Does that mean crystal healing is only positive? This is the issue I take with your point. I certainly believe there are negatives to alcohol, there are also positives. I say that as an ex-teetotaler. My life hasn't spiraled out of control and I'm not in any major danger. Part of that is because I keep my consumption in check. Alcohol can be a huge negative to many people, which is why it's not something everyone should do. That doesn't mean that it can't be consumed responsibly or provide happiness to those that do drink responsibly.
nitwit005 2y ago
This is something I've heard in person, but never online. Same for giving up being a vegetarian.
- ak_111 2y ago
  Not sure about vegetarian. There is usually lots of comments from people who say they tried being vegetarian but it didn't work when discussing meat and vegetarian threads.
strken 2y ago
I stopped drinking for a while and then started again. "Going sober" makes it sound like an ordeal involving Alcoholics Anonymous and significant lifestyle change, but I was originally drinking less than once a week anyway. Personally I think the debate about whether there's a healthy level of drinking is pointless when all the evidence suggests the risk scales linearly. My grandfather would have one drink at weddings and one drink at Christmas. As far as I can tell, the difference in life expectancy and general health between two drinks versus zero drinks per year is negligible.
- ak_111 2y ago
  I think the argument against moderate drinking, and it is not a particularly strong one, is that is hard to remain moderate, not that moderate drinking per se is dangerous. I think your grandfather would be deemed a teetotaler by today's standard. "moderate drinking" today is considered having a few glass of wines per week and you need really good discipline not to go from there to less moderate drinking.
II2II 2y ago
To be fair, those who go sober likely did so because alcohol was having a negative impact to start with. (Simply using the word sober in that context implies that drinking was a problem to start with. Otherwise people typically say that they stopped drinking or don't drink any more). I am guessing that those who started drinking later on in life don't wouldn't want to go around making statements that may be construed as promoting drinking, after all drinking is a problem for some people.
guilhas 2y ago
Because the "virtuous" fashionable thing is stop drinking, when they realize it is OK to drink moderately, and go back, there is no need to announce how less virtuous they are (In the case of addiction is obviously good to stop) Like stop eating meat, or stop drinking milk, vegetarian, doing keto diet, Huel meals, Herbalife, powder protein, creams, drugs, vitamins... or other crusade you find your self at the moment that you need to announce to everyone, especially when they didn't ask you
- ak_111 2y ago
  Actually if you are in place like the UK or northern Europe it is very much not considered fashionable or virtuous to stop drinking even today. For example whenever you go out in a work event, people would look at you almost suspiciously if you mention you don't drink or order juice.

by ak_111 2y ago

AngryData 2y ago

Im sure plenty of people feel that way, but they have no reason to go around telling everyone that, especially when many other people will argue against them and admonish them for it.

lolinder 2y ago
Do you have a reason why you're pretty sure plenty of people feel that way? The causal mechanism you're proposing for their silence—chiming in and getting admonished for it—would lead evidence that I don't see. Unless you're suggesting that people just assume they'll get chided?

homebrewer 2y ago

I went sober for many years and decided it was not for me (i.e. regretted it). Now... look at my username, it's there for a reason. This site is a massive echo chamber where you hear the same things over and over again, just like any other one.

ak_111 2y ago
Interesting why did you regret it? Is there anything you miss about it?
- cogman10 2y ago
  Getting buzzed is fun and relaxing. The issue with the original framing is people that go sober are almost certainly doing it because of the negatives of alcohol. The other reason you don't hear the opposite is because most people realize alcoholism is a thing. Nobody is going to advocate someone needs to drink to be happy. Drinking is not for everyone. These not shame in sobriety.
  - ak_111 2y ago
    Yes that's my point, it is very telling that nobody talks about it because it is a sign that alcohol is mostly a negative thing and has negative impact on people's life. If it wasn't we would be hearing far more from ex-teetotalers how much more their life improved after taking up alcohol the way you hear from people who get sober.
    - cogman10 2y ago
      Respectfully, I believe you've missed my point. > it is very telling that nobody talks about it because it is a sign that alcohol is mostly a negative thing and has negative impact on people's life. Alcohol can be a very negative thing. Nobody denies that. Similarly, opiates can be very negative things. However, opiates are not always negative and neither is alcohol. With most psychoactive drugs, how bad they are depends entirely on how much they are impacting the life of the user. And, as with most psychoactive drugs, alcohol is enjoyable to consume. It's not 100% a negative thing. > If it wasn't we would be hearing far more from ex-teetotalers how much more their life improved after taking up alcohol the way you hear from people who get sober. You hear from vegans all the time about the benefits of veganism, you don't often hear from ex-vegans. Does that mean consuming meat/animal products is mostly negatives? You hear pretty frequently from converts to a faith about the benefits of that faith, less frequently you hear from ex-members about the benefits of leaving. Does that mean there are no negatives to faith? Crystal healers will tell you all about the benefits of putting topaz on top of random things, you don't often hear from ex-crystal healers about the negatives of buying topaz. Does that mean crystal healing is only positive? This is the issue I take with your point. I certainly believe there are negatives to alcohol, there are also positives. I say that as an ex-teetotaler. My life hasn't spiraled out of control and I'm not in any major danger. Part of that is because I keep my consumption in check. Alcohol can be a huge negative to many people, which is why it's not something everyone should do. That doesn't mean that it can't be consumed responsibly or provide happiness to those that do drink responsibly.

nitwit005 2y ago

This is something I've heard in person, but never online. Same for giving up being a vegetarian.

ak_111 2y ago
Not sure about vegetarian. There is usually lots of comments from people who say they tried being vegetarian but it didn't work when discussing meat and vegetarian threads.

strken 2y ago

I stopped drinking for a while and then started again. "Going sober" makes it sound like an ordeal involving Alcoholics Anonymous and significant lifestyle change, but I was originally drinking less than once a week anyway. Personally I think the debate about whether there's a healthy level of drinking is pointless when all the evidence suggests the risk scales linearly. My grandfather would have one drink at weddings and one drink at Christmas. As far as I can tell, the difference in life expectancy and general health between two drinks versus zero drinks per year is negligible.

ak_111 2y ago
I think the argument against moderate drinking, and it is not a particularly strong one, is that is hard to remain moderate, not that moderate drinking per se is dangerous. I think your grandfather would be deemed a teetotaler by today's standard. "moderate drinking" today is considered having a few glass of wines per week and you need really good discipline not to go from there to less moderate drinking.

II2II 2y ago

To be fair, those who go sober likely did so because alcohol was having a negative impact to start with. (Simply using the word sober in that context implies that drinking was a problem to start with. Otherwise people typically say that they stopped drinking or don't drink any more). I am guessing that those who started drinking later on in life don't wouldn't want to go around making statements that may be construed as promoting drinking, after all drinking is a problem for some people.

guilhas 2y ago

Because the "virtuous" fashionable thing is stop drinking, when they realize it is OK to drink moderately, and go back, there is no need to announce how less virtuous they are (In the case of addiction is obviously good to stop) Like stop eating meat, or stop drinking milk, vegetarian, doing keto diet, Huel meals, Herbalife, powder protein, creams, drugs, vitamins... or other crusade you find your self at the moment that you need to announce to everyone, especially when they didn't ask you

ak_111 2y ago
Actually if you are in place like the UK or northern Europe it is very much not considered fashionable or virtuous to stop drinking even today. For example whenever you go out in a work event, people would look at you almost suspiciously if you mention you don't drink or order juice.