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The Dragon in My Garage

29 points by markessien 18y ago

tdonia 18y ago
"The 'Dragon' is a metaphor for God." should have been omitted from the preamble. if the reader cannot figure out that the dragon = god the rest of the argument is in more trouble than explicitly asserting that can fix. and for the rest of us, it's a lousy spoiler.
- ricree 18y ago
  It's been a while since I read Demon Haunted World, but I'm pretty sure that the Dragon wasn't even supposed to specifically be a metaphor for God. Instead, it was supposed to be a metaphor for all supernatural claims. In particular, Sagan had previously spent a large amount of time in the earlier parts of the book discussing claims of alien abductions, and relating them to historical cases of "demonic possession". While this story can certainly be used as a metaphor for God, I believe that focusing on that misses the overall point of the story.
kajecounterhack 18y ago
Now all the article needs is a manual that is purportedly written two thousand years ago that rules "dragons exist in garages." And then all peoples with garages and dragons need to have a special purpose for existence (making people aware of the reptilian friends in the garages), and he'd have modern religion in a nutshell.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
tsally 18y ago
I was assigned to read this book in AP Psychology in high school. Discovering Carl Sagen alone made that class worth it. I now own quite a few of his works and would highly recomend all of them to anyone. The Demon-Haunted World should be required reading, regardless of whether you agree with his viewpoints. Each chapter is a starting point for a powerful, exciting intellectual discussion.
- unalone 18y ago
  What is the Demon-Haunted World about? I've always loved this essay, but I don't know anything else about Carl Sagan.
  - ivey 18y ago
    I'm not sure where to begin. Demon-Haunted World is about skepticism, and how to use science and rational inquiry to avoid scams, pseudoscience, hoaxes, and possibly religion. It is not a strictly atheist book, although you could read it as one if you tilt your head properly. But how can you not know anything else about Carl Sagan? He wrote many books popularizing science, including Contact, The Dragons of Eden, Broca's Brain, and Cosmos. He also co-wrote and hosted the series Cosmos on PBS, which is the most-watched PBS show in history, and well worth watching on DVD. He was founder and first President of The Planetary Society (http://www.planetary.org/ http://www.planetary.org/). He was an avid supporter of SETI. He assembled the gold plaque that went into space on Pioneer 10, and the golden records that went out on the Voyager probes. As an astronomer, he made several important hypotheses about the structure of other planets, particularly Venus, and drew connections between Venus and Earth-based global warming and greenhouse emissions. He was active in investigating UFO claims, including serving on the Ad Hoc Committee that reviewed the Air Force's Project Blue Book. He was convinced of the probability of extra-terrestrial intelligence, but equally convinced that we had not encountered it yet. Most importantly, he brought us the phrase "billions and billions", even though he never said it himself until long after it was a joke. Here's a collection of quotations: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan And one for the road: "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."
d0mine 18y ago
In Defence Of The Dragon The Dragon is a metaphor for hope and justice in a world where there is no hope and never will. It is easy to disregard the Dragon if suffering is not a part of your daily life.
- jjames 18y ago
  It is an entirely other assertion that The Invisible Dragon alleviates suffering, beyond existing. Let's imagine those who say there is a dragon living in their garage contend that the dragon is a required salve for the harms of living in a hostile world. Though I can not prove (though still approaching with an open mind) the physical existence of a dragon in anyone's garage, I can not argue against the proclaimed effect on those who find their suffering abated. That is, the effect is real if you say it is; the dragon is not.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
- qqq 18y ago
  You wouldn't need this false comfort if you didn't take the view that the world in fact has no hope. One can be a thoughtful optimist rather than a mystical optimist.
davidw 18y ago
Ugh. Reddit has an atheism subreddit for this kind of stuff.

29 points by markessien 18y ago

"The 'Dragon' is a metaphor for God." should have been omitted from the preamble. if the reader cannot figure out that the dragon = god the rest of the argument is in more trouble than explicitly asserting that can fix. and for the rest of us, it's a lousy spoiler.

ricree 18y ago
It's been a while since I read Demon Haunted World, but I'm pretty sure that the Dragon wasn't even supposed to specifically be a metaphor for God. Instead, it was supposed to be a metaphor for all supernatural claims. In particular, Sagan had previously spent a large amount of time in the earlier parts of the book discussing claims of alien abductions, and relating them to historical cases of "demonic possession". While this story can certainly be used as a metaphor for God, I believe that focusing on that misses the overall point of the story.

kajecounterhack 18y ago

Now all the article needs is a manual that is purportedly written two thousand years ago that rules "dragons exist in garages." And then all peoples with garages and dragons need to have a special purpose for existence (making people aware of the reptilian friends in the garages), and he'd have modern religion in a nutshell.

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]

tsally 18y ago

I was assigned to read this book in AP Psychology in high school. Discovering Carl Sagen alone made that class worth it. I now own quite a few of his works and would highly recomend all of them to anyone. The Demon-Haunted World should be required reading, regardless of whether you agree with his viewpoints. Each chapter is a starting point for a powerful, exciting intellectual discussion.

unalone 18y ago
What is the Demon-Haunted World about? I've always loved this essay, but I don't know anything else about Carl Sagan.
- ivey 18y ago
  I'm not sure where to begin. Demon-Haunted World is about skepticism, and how to use science and rational inquiry to avoid scams, pseudoscience, hoaxes, and possibly religion. It is not a strictly atheist book, although you could read it as one if you tilt your head properly. But how can you not know anything else about Carl Sagan? He wrote many books popularizing science, including Contact, The Dragons of Eden, Broca's Brain, and Cosmos. He also co-wrote and hosted the series Cosmos on PBS, which is the most-watched PBS show in history, and well worth watching on DVD. He was founder and first President of The Planetary Society (http://www.planetary.org/ http://www.planetary.org/). He was an avid supporter of SETI. He assembled the gold plaque that went into space on Pioneer 10, and the golden records that went out on the Voyager probes. As an astronomer, he made several important hypotheses about the structure of other planets, particularly Venus, and drew connections between Venus and Earth-based global warming and greenhouse emissions. He was active in investigating UFO claims, including serving on the Ad Hoc Committee that reviewed the Air Force's Project Blue Book. He was convinced of the probability of extra-terrestrial intelligence, but equally convinced that we had not encountered it yet. Most importantly, he brought us the phrase "billions and billions", even though he never said it himself until long after it was a joke. Here's a collection of quotations: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Carl_Sagan And one for the road: "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."

d0mine 18y ago

In Defence Of The Dragon The Dragon is a metaphor for hope and justice in a world where there is no hope and never will. It is easy to disregard the Dragon if suffering is not a part of your daily life.

jjames 18y ago
It is an entirely other assertion that The Invisible Dragon alleviates suffering, beyond existing. Let's imagine those who say there is a dragon living in their garage contend that the dragon is a required salve for the harms of living in a hostile world. Though I can not prove (though still approaching with an open mind) the physical existence of a dragon in anyone's garage, I can not argue against the proclaimed effect on those who find their suffering abated. That is, the effect is real if you say it is; the dragon is not.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
qqq 18y ago
You wouldn't need this false comfort if you didn't take the view that the world in fact has no hope. One can be a thoughtful optimist rather than a mystical optimist.

davidw 18y ago

Ugh. Reddit has an atheism subreddit for this kind of stuff.