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by d4mi3n 2y ago
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- abc-1 2y ago[flagged]
- aroman 2y agoI read no moralizing or grandstanding in GP’s comment. It’s a valid point - most humans on planet earth will experience some form of mental disorder in their lifetime.[0] [0] https://hms.harvard.edu/news/half-worlds-population-will-experience-mental-health-disorder https://hms.harvard.edu/news/half-worlds-population-will-exp...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- eterpstra 2y agoYou know, the entire point of this website is to comment on articles with our own thoughts, experiences, and opinions - even if it's moralizing and/or grandstanding. Can we stop discouraging comments in the comment section? It gets so tiresome.
- d4mi3n 2y agoMy intent was to point out that personal experiences differ and that things the article points out as given are not so given for everyone. My intent was not to moralize and I'm uncertain to what part of my original comment could be interpreted as a moral stance.
- tikhonj 2y agoPeople largely understand that folks who can't walk can't walk. There is still a lot of moralizing around mental health and treatment. "ADHD is not a real thing, they just need to stop being lazy"/etc/etc. The two situations are simply not comparable.
- jnovek 2y ago[flagged]
- hackernewds 2y agodid the comment get edited or are you responded to the wrong comment? I see no reference to anything as such
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- keybored 2y ago> Anyone with ADHD, clinical depression, bipolar disorder, and many other conditions simply do not and cannot have full control of their minds without medical intervention. Who are you and how are you privy to what I can and cannot do without intervention? Where do you get off?
- d4mi3n 2y agoI'm speaking for myself (ADHD) and anecdotal experience from people in my life with these conditions (clinical depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD). I don't claim to speak for anyone. Your experience may be different, and that is fine and valid. The point I'm trying to make (and that you're also making) is that things that are fundamental truths for some are not always applicable or valid from the context of another person's lived experience.
- keybored 2y ago> I'm speaking for myself (ADHD) and anecdotal experience from people in my life with these conditions (clinical depression, bipolar disorder, ADHD). I don't claim to speak for anyone. Now you say that. But you made a very clear, absolute statement that these people “cannot have full control of their minds without medical intervention”. And everyone’s lived experience is eventually respected with some back and forth in these exchanges. But making absolute statements about what people can or cannot do cuts both ways. So it’s best to make your vantage point clear from the start.[1] I’m personally much more offended when someone says that my “type” cannot do something. Compared to assuming that I can. Thanks for the clarification. [1] For all we knew you could have been a medical researcher.
- soulofmischief 2y agoAs someone with severe, often debilitating ADHD, I understand not wanting to depend on medication. It was forced upon me under threat of punishment as a child and heavily exacerbated my OCD and tic syndrome, which led to further punishment anyway. Learning to be okay with medication has taken a long time. But the last couple decades of research have made a few things clear. Importantly, ADHD has been shown to be a genetic disorder, wherein your brain simply doesn't produce the same amount of dopamine receptors as a normal person. This has a profound impact on your mood, executive functioning skills, motor function and more. Drugs which increase the dopamine available in your system can have negative effects (some extra dopamine gets shunted to your motor cortex and causes motor dysfunction/aggravates tics) but when you consider that 60% of ADHD sufferers are also diagnosed with depression, or in my case a large comorbidity with OCD and bipolar disorder, it becomes clear how valuable medicine can be. ADHD is beginning to be understood as a reward-deficiency syndrome [0] and in this light, meditation/mindfulness and good habits are only coping mechanisms for an underlying condition which is ultimately genetic and massively aided by dopaminergic drugs. The result is literally night and day for many people, especially those who did not get diagnosed until adulthood and never developed coping mechanisms. > But making absolute statements about what people can or cannot do cuts both ways. I just lost one of my best friends last year because I moved in with him and experienced incredible prejudice around my disorder, which he was convinced was made up and not real. He would wax on and on about mindfulness, and constantly get defensive and aggressive at the slightest, most inconsequential manifestations of my disorder, and it rapidly deteriorated my mental health at a time where I was already in dire need of a safe space. His bias and increasingly erratic response to my disorder made me feel unsafe until I had no choice but to leave. The entire experience was very traumatic and reminded me of all the times as a child that my disorders lead to punishment and physical abuse. Some people have mild ADHD and it might be a slight convenience for them, but in my case it has been a major defining aspect of my life with a long list of consequences over the years. [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/
- greggyb 2y agoI will note that you are not responding to what you have quoted, but to an extreme re-interpretation. The OP says "exert some mastery over", which is a far cry from the "full control" you say some people cannot have.
- d4mi3n 2y agoYou raise a fair point. I think some of this is likely reactionary to some degree. Very often the response to a person struggling with a condition is "just try harder", so it's really, really easy read statements like the one you quoted as being more prescriptive than they are likely intended.
- krzat 2y agoHonestly the bigger problem is probably that creating lasting habits is hard. Everyone knows that exercise is important but how many people maintain a consistent routine? With mindfulness it's even worse because there is no way to track how strong your equanimity is. You can't know if you are making progress or just deluding yourself.
- keybored 2y agoMy meditation book (The Mind Illuminated) divides everything into stages. And the strength of one’s mindfulness is discussed.
- hackernewds 2y agoCould you give a preview here?
- krzat 2y agoOur capacity for delusion is pretty robust. Culadasa's scandal is a good example.
- keybored 2y agoHe wrote in the book (2015) that sufficiently advanced meditation could replace years of therapy. That turned out to be wrong.
- imp0cat 2y agoPeople are creatures of comfort. That's why I'd disagree with your first sentence. I think creating long-lasting habits can be easy, in fact sometimes you don't even realize it happened until it's too late. Now getting rid of the bad habits and keeping only the good ones, that is the hard part.
- TomK32 2y agoI can only confirm this and still struggle whenever I want to create a new habit. Russel Barkley when speaking about ADHD in children suggests to prefer productivity over quality. Want to work out more? Go for a walk/run every day, start and don't bother about the distance or duration. Same for the gym, as long as you keep going there, doing whatever you improve the likelyhood of doing it better this or the next time.
- hu3 2y agoYou're getting disproportionately criticised and having uncharitable replies but, you're right. Any serious psychiatrist will confirm that medication is immensely helpful to the majority of ADHD cases if not all. Our brains are just different, chemistry-wise. I don't know why people get so offended by this notion.
- latentsea 2y ago> immensely helpful to the majority of ADHD cases if not all Definitely not all. Medication doesn't work for something like 10% ~ 20% of us. In my case it worked well for 6 months and gradually I acclimated to it and the effects went away, I switched medications and had the exact same experience. I gave up after that.
- keybored 2y agoPeople have already responded with their reasons. You can try to hammer on with further digressions from what the submission is about (not even wrong), complete with that inflamed/emotionally charged interpretation, but what’s the point in spilling more bytes on this.
- hu3 2y agoPlease refrain from gatekeeping or trying to limit what I, or anyone else, can or cannot do. The world isn't limited by your imagination. I don't even understand what your point is.
- keybored 2y agoHow fragile are you? My comment is about why I don’t think spilling bytes on this question of yours is worth—it was already answered before you posted the comment. Which is my opinion. Which doesn’t silence anyone.
- scubbo 2y ago> Anyone with ADHD, clinical depression, bipolar disorder, and many other conditions simply do not and cannot have full control of their minds without medical intervention. Right - hence "might", not "do"; and "some", not "full".
- afro88 2y agoYou're right, but it's a bit of an uncharitable take on the post. Nowhere does the it say that medical intervention is unnecessary for people with conditions requiring it. The title, and quoted passage, are fully applicable to those with the listed conditions and without. The advice from the post supplements medical intervention for folks requiring it.
- whatever1 2y agoSometimes I just feel too tired to be actively engaged in the moment and i feel the time just passing by. Not sure what the solution is.