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I think Matt would be quite happy with that. His issue is WP Engine not contributing to WordPress. If they decide to maintain a fork and infrastructure, they wo

I think Matt would be quite happy with that. His issue is WP Engine not contributing to WordPress. If they decide to maintain a fork and infrastructure, they won't be freeloading anymore. Edit: That attracted a lot of downvotes. I was giving my option in response to the parent comment. In my option Automattic would be happy if they forked it.

thih9 2y ago
If the new project offers a more stable platform, one that cannot be controlled by a single person, the community might like that more and might move; then there will be little left to freeload. Is that an option btw? I.e. is it possible to offer hosting with seamless migration from wordpress.org?
serial_dev 2y ago
Where is it in the license that you need to contribute to the project if you make big bucks? We have open source licenses for a reason, contributing back is never a requirement. If you believe that is his issue, I have a bridge to sell you.
- teruakohatu 2y ago
  > Where is it in the license that you need to contribute to the project if you make big bucks? We have open source licenses for a reason, contributing back is never a requirement. If you believe that is his issue, I have a bridge to sell you. I never said that the license forced them to contribute.
- saaaaaam 2y ago
  Mullenweg literally said that this was his issue. That’s what kicked off the whole debacle.
  - bravetraveler 2y ago
    > his issue Very astute phrasing. Personal problem.
  - serial_dev 2y ago
    Bill Clinton said he didn’t have relations with that woman. At some point in life, people usually stop believing everything that others “literally said”.
    - saaaaaam 2y ago
      Right, sorry, I see what you mean. You mean “if you believe that the issue is truly as he describes it publicly and not in fact something else” rather than the literal interpretation of “if you believe that this is his issue”. My answer was based on the fact that I’ve seen several people who are unaware of what Mullen’s said that precipitated the row.
      - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
        matt's actions which precipitated the row were to demand that WPEngine pay 8% of their revenue to Automattic, a private-equity-associated, for-profit corporation matt runs. Money, more and more money for matt, seems to be the matt's driving motivation here. He seems to be projecting his own greed onto others.
  - partiallypro 2y ago
    At this point there is absolutely no reason to believe Mullenweg.
immibis 2y ago
WPE contributes to WordPress; Matt is just full of shit on this. It's an excuse, not a reason.
- ryukoposting 2y ago
  What does WPE contribute? I ask from a place of curiosity. Code, money?
  - jeltz 2y ago
    Both. Matt just does not think they contribute enough. Either that or he is angry that they are more successful than his own company.
  - mst 2y ago
    On code contributions, I believe the accusation was that the amount of developer time they fund is tiny relative to the size of the company. I've not seen numbers comparing other significant WP users to them, though, only comparing them to Automattic itself, which seems a bit apples to aardvarks to me.
  - underdown 2y ago
    At a minimum a plugin that Wordpress was forced to “fork”.
  - saaaaaam 2y ago
    Beyond code and money, both of which I believe they contribute - though apparently not enough to satisfy Matt Mullenweg - you could argue that they offer a very straight forward distribution/adoption channel in terms of straightforward infrastructure. I hate WP Engine - having had first hand dealings with them after they acquired a company I’d spent tens of thousands of dollar with - but nonetheless I fee like there’s probably a pretty strong argument that simple straightforward Wordpress hosting means more people use Wordpress which strengthens the overall ecosystem. When I first started using Wordpress there was a steep learning curve to get it configured correctly on hosting where stuff wouldn’t break. I used to pay someone to do that for me, and when they gave up doing that I moved to Flywheel (which was later acquired by WP Engine) and suddenly all of my previous problems with Wordpress from a hosting perspective vanished. It just worked and the Flyhweel support team was amazing and would even unofficially support the wider implementation of Wordpress (“I changed this and now that thing has broken… I know it’s not your fault but any suggestions?” “Hey, here’s the problem, plus we have fixed it for you!”) That made me stick with Wordpress for years and build out more sites in Wordpress and recommend it to friends and clients. Most small businesses (which represents the majority of Wordpress users) don’t want to have to think about hosting: in the same way they expect their mobile phone service to just work, and email to just work, they need Wordpress to just work. Whatever issues I have with WP Engine they offer a very straightforward “forget about it” service for running Wordpress which ultimately means more people are likely to use it.
closewith 2y ago
On one hand, the claim is that WP Engine contributes nothing to the WordPress ecosystem. On the other hand, the necessity for Automattic to fork a plugin developed by WPE suggests that WPE has been contributing something significant—so significant that its continuation is essential for the community.

thih9 2y ago

If the new project offers a more stable platform, one that cannot be controlled by a single person, the community might like that more and might move; then there will be little left to freeload. Is that an option btw? I.e. is it possible to offer hosting with seamless migration from wordpress.org?

serial_dev 2y ago

Where is it in the license that you need to contribute to the project if you make big bucks? We have open source licenses for a reason, contributing back is never a requirement. If you believe that is his issue, I have a bridge to sell you.

teruakohatu 2y ago
> Where is it in the license that you need to contribute to the project if you make big bucks? We have open source licenses for a reason, contributing back is never a requirement. If you believe that is his issue, I have a bridge to sell you. I never said that the license forced them to contribute.
saaaaaam 2y ago
Mullenweg literally said that this was his issue. That’s what kicked off the whole debacle.
- bravetraveler 2y ago
  > his issue Very astute phrasing. Personal problem.
- serial_dev 2y ago
  Bill Clinton said he didn’t have relations with that woman. At some point in life, people usually stop believing everything that others “literally said”.
  - saaaaaam 2y ago
    Right, sorry, I see what you mean. You mean “if you believe that the issue is truly as he describes it publicly and not in fact something else” rather than the literal interpretation of “if you believe that this is his issue”. My answer was based on the fact that I’ve seen several people who are unaware of what Mullen’s said that precipitated the row.
    - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
      matt's actions which precipitated the row were to demand that WPEngine pay 8% of their revenue to Automattic, a private-equity-associated, for-profit corporation matt runs. Money, more and more money for matt, seems to be the matt's driving motivation here. He seems to be projecting his own greed onto others.
- partiallypro 2y ago
  At this point there is absolutely no reason to believe Mullenweg.

immibis 2y ago

WPE contributes to WordPress; Matt is just full of shit on this. It's an excuse, not a reason.

ryukoposting 2y ago
What does WPE contribute? I ask from a place of curiosity. Code, money?
- jeltz 2y ago
  Both. Matt just does not think they contribute enough. Either that or he is angry that they are more successful than his own company.
- mst 2y ago
  On code contributions, I believe the accusation was that the amount of developer time they fund is tiny relative to the size of the company. I've not seen numbers comparing other significant WP users to them, though, only comparing them to Automattic itself, which seems a bit apples to aardvarks to me.
- underdown 2y ago
  At a minimum a plugin that Wordpress was forced to “fork”.
- saaaaaam 2y ago
  Beyond code and money, both of which I believe they contribute - though apparently not enough to satisfy Matt Mullenweg - you could argue that they offer a very straight forward distribution/adoption channel in terms of straightforward infrastructure. I hate WP Engine - having had first hand dealings with them after they acquired a company I’d spent tens of thousands of dollar with - but nonetheless I fee like there’s probably a pretty strong argument that simple straightforward Wordpress hosting means more people use Wordpress which strengthens the overall ecosystem. When I first started using Wordpress there was a steep learning curve to get it configured correctly on hosting where stuff wouldn’t break. I used to pay someone to do that for me, and when they gave up doing that I moved to Flywheel (which was later acquired by WP Engine) and suddenly all of my previous problems with Wordpress from a hosting perspective vanished. It just worked and the Flyhweel support team was amazing and would even unofficially support the wider implementation of Wordpress (“I changed this and now that thing has broken… I know it’s not your fault but any suggestions?” “Hey, here’s the problem, plus we have fixed it for you!”) That made me stick with Wordpress for years and build out more sites in Wordpress and recommend it to friends and clients. Most small businesses (which represents the majority of Wordpress users) don’t want to have to think about hosting: in the same way they expect their mobile phone service to just work, and email to just work, they need Wordpress to just work. Whatever issues I have with WP Engine they offer a very straightforward “forget about it” service for running Wordpress which ultimately means more people are likely to use it.

closewith 2y ago

On one hand, the claim is that WP Engine contributes nothing to the WordPress ecosystem. On the other hand, the necessity for Automattic to fork a plugin developed by WPE suggests that WPE has been contributing something significant—so significant that its continuation is essential for the community.