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Hard agree that these are true ‘fundamental pitfalls’ of Emacs’ design. However I may go further on your third point. I would like to see a dedicated new user/l

Hard agree that these are true ‘fundamental pitfalls’ of Emacs’ design. However I may go further on your third point. I would like to see a dedicated new user/learner mode that in addition to saner defaults would be pretty fully configured and pre-loaded with the most common extensions/plug-ins/etc. This could then lead to development of dedicated documentation/tutorials that assist the new user in becoming proficient in the common style/habits of Emacs usage. This could provide a much simpler full featured ‘base’ state for the app, that can then be customized from that point or can be stripped back by removing the more common add-ons and customized from the ground up. It would in some ways necessitate a strongly opinionated set of defaults and an additional focus on documentation, but I think in the long run the app would benefit from higher retention.

jolmg 2y ago
> in addition to saner defaults Isn't that cua-mode? https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/CUA-Bindings.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/CU... > would be pretty fully configured and pre-loaded with the most common extensions/plug-ins/etc. Doesn't it already do this? org-mode comes pre-installed for instance.
- orra 2y ago
  cua-mode, yes, but the point is it's not the default. Similarly, recentf-mode exists but is not the default. Or has that changed?
randmeerkat 2y ago
> I would like to see a dedicated new user/learner mode “To run the tutorial, start Emacs and type C-h t, that is, Ctrl-h followed by t.”[1] [1] https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/ https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/
- anthk 2y ago
  That can be just put in the startup screen.
  - School-Cotton 2y ago
    There is already a link to the tutorial on the startup screen.
appplication 2y ago
I’m on the strong opinion that most highly configurable software should come with strongly opinionated defaults. “It’s infinitely configurable so you can do anything you want” is just… so annoying. You could implement an LLM using punchcards if you were mad enough. The thing that makes a tool effective is the fact that it constrains and specializes.
anthk 2y ago
I'm against that. Some random user would use Org-Mode and it wouldn't need any IDE related extensions. Also, another programmer might just use Org-Babel and code in Common Lisp with org-babel and a REPL doing literary programming. Another one would use Emacs for IRC, Email and math with M-x calc and/or iMaxima and AucTex.

jolmg 2y ago

> in addition to saner defaults Isn't that cua-mode? https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/CUA-Bindings.html https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/CU... > would be pretty fully configured and pre-loaded with the most common extensions/plug-ins/etc. Doesn't it already do this? org-mode comes pre-installed for instance.

orra 2y ago
cua-mode, yes, but the point is it's not the default. Similarly, recentf-mode exists but is not the default. Or has that changed?

randmeerkat 2y ago

> I would like to see a dedicated new user/learner mode “To run the tutorial, start Emacs and type C-h t, that is, Ctrl-h followed by t.”[1] [1] https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/ https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/tour/

anthk 2y ago
That can be just put in the startup screen.
- School-Cotton 2y ago
  There is already a link to the tutorial on the startup screen.

appplication 2y ago

I’m on the strong opinion that most highly configurable software should come with strongly opinionated defaults. “It’s infinitely configurable so you can do anything you want” is just… so annoying. You could implement an LLM using punchcards if you were mad enough. The thing that makes a tool effective is the fact that it constrains and specializes.

anthk 2y ago

I'm against that. Some random user would use Org-Mode and it wouldn't need any IDE related extensions. Also, another programmer might just use Org-Babel and code in Common Lisp with org-babel and a REPL doing literary programming. Another one would use Emacs for IRC, Email and math with M-x calc and/or iMaxima and AucTex.