6 ms·

To a first approximation(see note) all natural languages have similar complexity, it just comes out in different parts of the language. Languages with fewer moo

To a first approximation(see note) all natural languages have similar complexity, it just comes out in different parts of the language. Languages with fewer moods make up for it with synonymous constructions that use more words. (note) linguists argue about this just like they argue about everything else, but it is the safer assumption for non-linguists.

bee_rider 2y ago
I wonder if anybody who’s learned English would be willing to share some bits they found unusual or unique?
- idlewords 2y ago
  A few things—articles in English (the, a) are subtle as hell and extremely difficult to use correctly if you're not a native speaker. The way you can verb any noun is super interesting and productive. And having to memorize the idiomatic different meanings of a billion verb + preposition combinations (take up, take down, take over, take in, take away, take on) is a real treat for learners.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    The takeaway is: take down “take in.”
  - scrollaway 2y ago
    > articles in English (the, a) are subtle as hell and extremely difficult to use correctly if you're not a native speaker. Found the Slavic speaker ;) The/A construction is similar in most Latin languages. Absolutely agree on the other two features though. It’s kinda crazy and I have no idea how I actually learned those things… they just “happened” into my head. (I’m not a native speaker)
    - LudwigNagasena 2y ago
      Articles exist in Romance languages, that’s true, but they are subtly different. You usually wouldn’t say “the Tuesday” in English but you would often say “el martes” in Spanish; “tennis” vs “el tenis”; “I don’t have a car” vs “no tengo coche” and so on.
  - mjd 2y ago
    My Korean tutor said the same thing about “the”. I said “doesn't it just mean there is only one instance?" and he replied "the police". For the benefit of other folks wanting to follow up the "take off" thing: it's called a "phrasal verb".
    - egeozcan 2y ago
      Turkish doesn't have article(s) and "the" is usually very confusing when you first start. But then I learned German too...
      - MichaelZuo 2y ago
        How does Turkish handle addressing something like ‘the police’ in sentence structure? (without using anything similar to ‘the’) e.g. ‘The police force has expanded recently in this city.’
        justsomehnguy 2y ago
        ‘Police force has expanded recently in this city.’
        egeozcan 2y ago
        Nothing. "Polis (police), son (latest) zamanlarda (times, at) bu (this) şehirde (city, within) faaliyetlerini (operations) arttırdı (increased)." If I'm talking about a specific police officer, then I'd use "o", which means he/she/it/that. O geldi -> he/she/it/that arrived. O polis geldi -> that police arrived. Ona polis geldi -> police arrived to him/her (his/her place). polis geldi -> the police (has) arrived. O bahsettiğin polis geldi -> The police officer you were talking about (has) arrived.
        justsomehnguy 2y ago
        Ah, yes, many languages do not need to specifically distinguish between 'police' and 'police force'.
        2y ago
  - bmm6o 2y ago
    Not only all the phrasal verbs, but that there is no parallelism across usage. Take up, take down, take off versus break up, break down, break off. Knowing the meaning of some of those doesn't really shed light on the meaning of any others.
- ruuda 2y ago
  Pronunciation bears little relation to how words are written. For the longest time I thought I knew how to pronounce Greenwich, because I knew how to pronounce ‘green’ and ‘sandwich’. (Or things like advertising vs. advertisement, etc.) I saw a joke somewhere that western people think Chinese must be difficult because you have to memorize the pronunciation of so many symbols, but English is no different.
- spongebobism 2y ago
  idlewords mentioned some good ones. While English doesn't have many moods, it still has relatively many verb forms (just take a look at past tenses: I ate, I've eaten, I had eaten, I was eating, I have been eating, I had been eating...). In most contexts, only one of them is idiomatic, and knowing which one takes a lot of studying. Also, English has a fixed order for adjectives [1]. AFAIK, this is unusual cross-linguistically - at least in my native language, "big red ball" and "red big ball" would both be idiomatic. If you're really curious, you can take a look at the contents of an English grammar for advanced learners. What gets a lot of chapters, probably trips up a lot of learners. [2] [1] https://www.espressoenglish.net/order-of-adjectives-in-english/ https://www.espressoenglish.net/order-of-adjectives-in-engli... [2] https://assets.cambridge.org/97811076/99892/frontmatter/9781107699892_frontmatter.pdf https://assets.cambridge.org/97811076/99892/frontmatter/9781...

bee_rider 2y ago

I wonder if anybody who’s learned English would be willing to share some bits they found unusual or unique?

idlewords 2y ago
A few things—articles in English (the, a) are subtle as hell and extremely difficult to use correctly if you're not a native speaker. The way you can verb any noun is super interesting and productive. And having to memorize the idiomatic different meanings of a billion verb + preposition combinations (take up, take down, take over, take in, take away, take on) is a real treat for learners.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  The takeaway is: take down “take in.”
- scrollaway 2y ago
  > articles in English (the, a) are subtle as hell and extremely difficult to use correctly if you're not a native speaker. Found the Slavic speaker ;) The/A construction is similar in most Latin languages. Absolutely agree on the other two features though. It’s kinda crazy and I have no idea how I actually learned those things… they just “happened” into my head. (I’m not a native speaker)
  - LudwigNagasena 2y ago
    Articles exist in Romance languages, that’s true, but they are subtly different. You usually wouldn’t say “the Tuesday” in English but you would often say “el martes” in Spanish; “tennis” vs “el tenis”; “I don’t have a car” vs “no tengo coche” and so on.
- mjd 2y ago
  My Korean tutor said the same thing about “the”. I said “doesn't it just mean there is only one instance?" and he replied "the police". For the benefit of other folks wanting to follow up the "take off" thing: it's called a "phrasal verb".
  - egeozcan 2y ago
    Turkish doesn't have article(s) and "the" is usually very confusing when you first start. But then I learned German too...
    - MichaelZuo 2y ago
      How does Turkish handle addressing something like ‘the police’ in sentence structure? (without using anything similar to ‘the’) e.g. ‘The police force has expanded recently in this city.’
      - justsomehnguy 2y ago
        ‘Police force has expanded recently in this city.’
      - egeozcan 2y ago
        Nothing. "Polis (police), son (latest) zamanlarda (times, at) bu (this) şehirde (city, within) faaliyetlerini (operations) arttırdı (increased)." If I'm talking about a specific police officer, then I'd use "o", which means he/she/it/that. O geldi -> he/she/it/that arrived. O polis geldi -> that police arrived. Ona polis geldi -> police arrived to him/her (his/her place). polis geldi -> the police (has) arrived. O bahsettiğin polis geldi -> The police officer you were talking about (has) arrived.
        justsomehnguy 2y ago
        Ah, yes, many languages do not need to specifically distinguish between 'police' and 'police force'.
        2y ago
- bmm6o 2y ago
  Not only all the phrasal verbs, but that there is no parallelism across usage. Take up, take down, take off versus break up, break down, break off. Knowing the meaning of some of those doesn't really shed light on the meaning of any others.
ruuda 2y ago
Pronunciation bears little relation to how words are written. For the longest time I thought I knew how to pronounce Greenwich, because I knew how to pronounce ‘green’ and ‘sandwich’. (Or things like advertising vs. advertisement, etc.) I saw a joke somewhere that western people think Chinese must be difficult because you have to memorize the pronunciation of so many symbols, but English is no different.
spongebobism 2y ago
idlewords mentioned some good ones. While English doesn't have many moods, it still has relatively many verb forms (just take a look at past tenses: I ate, I've eaten, I had eaten, I was eating, I have been eating, I had been eating...). In most contexts, only one of them is idiomatic, and knowing which one takes a lot of studying. Also, English has a fixed order for adjectives [1]. AFAIK, this is unusual cross-linguistically - at least in my native language, "big red ball" and "red big ball" would both be idiomatic. If you're really curious, you can take a look at the contents of an English grammar for advanced learners. What gets a lot of chapters, probably trips up a lot of learners. [2] [1] https://www.espressoenglish.net/order-of-adjectives-in-english/ https://www.espressoenglish.net/order-of-adjectives-in-engli... [2] https://assets.cambridge.org/97811076/99892/frontmatter/9781107699892_frontmatter.pdf https://assets.cambridge.org/97811076/99892/frontmatter/9781...