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I hate to speculate, especially from a distance. But I do wonder: - Why now? What snapped? Clearly WPE didn't go to "billions" over night. So why go nuclear no

I hate to speculate, especially from a distance. But I do wonder: - Why now? What snapped? Clearly WPE didn't go to "billions" over night. So why go nuclear now? - Doesn't he have a close and immediate circle of advisors and confidants? Are they speaking to him and he's not listen? Or has he locked himself in a room so to speak and is completely unapproachable? Either way, not good. - Is he trying to force WPE to fork WP and then maintain their own version? Does he believe they can't do it? What if WPE's hosting peers unite and abandon what is effectively Automattic's version? Am I the only one who can't imagine a good outcome from all this?

Scaevolus 2y ago
It is sad. I imagine a near future result will be WPE maintaining a fork of WordPress and the plugin repo, with WP demanding plugin authors disclaim any association with WPE.
throw16180339 2y ago
> Am I the only one who can't imagine a good outcome from all this? Here's a possible good outcome. 1. The board fires Matt, stops chasing windmills, and settles with WP Engine. I'm kind of surprised they haven't done so already - it's all downhill from here. He's either lying to them, not listening, or they're drinking the Kool Aid. 2. Matt steps down from the WordPress Foundation and transfers ownership of wordpress.org to them. He takes his hundreds of millions of dollars and does something else. 3. The new CEO apologizes to the community and establishes public processes for removing extensions and such. Checks and balances are added. 4. The WordPress Foundation's new director orders a house clearing. Many hosting providers and developers are invited to join the board. It's no longer an instrument of Matt's will, but represents the community. The first step will probably happen at some point. The second step could happen, but seems unlikely. I think there's a significant chance Matt would go on a rampage if he was fired. He clearly thinks of WordPress as his personal property. If he retains control of the foundation, there's nothing to stop him from continuing his crusade there. He's certainly got the funds to do so. The third step is effectively required if he's fired. It's even mentioned in the 48 Laws of Power. I don't think this outcome is particularly likely, but it could happen. People do sometimes win the lottery.
- chiefalchemist 2y ago
  I can see those, but I don't imagine there's even a fair chance of them happening. In my mind, shortly after the WordCamp US things should have leveled out. Someone should have pulled Matt aside and said, "OK, you vented. Pissed all over The Community who showed up, but you vented. Let's get this back on the rails..." It's possible that was said. But Matt's listening skills aren't good and lately have gotten worse. To me, the long this stays off the rails the less likely it is to get back on the rails. Someday this is going to be an HBR case study on how not to ensure your legacy. There should also be an HBR case study for Gutenberg, "How not to roll out a product."
  - throw16180339 2y ago
    CEOs can get away with a lot if they're successful; Elon Musk is a good example. That only goes so far, though. If he wins the trademark lawsuit, he can probably do whatever he wants. If he loses, there's a shareholder lawsuit, or he continues escalating then at some point he'll be removed. One can only hope.
    - SXX 2y ago
      There are very good chances Matt control majority of Automattic. It's private company so he can do whatever he wants. Also their employee "shares" dont have any voting rights: https://ma.tt/2024/10/owner-mentality/ https://ma.tt/2024/10/owner-mentality/
    - chiefalchemist 2y ago
      Yeah, Musk and others come to mind. But WP is supposed to OSS. Musk didn't build his empire on the backs of volunteers. Musk has built multiple successful ventures. Matt has step in it once. In the context OSS Matt's behaviour is deplorable. His insistence on digging a deeper and deeper hole is freightening. It's digital self-emmolation. It's professional suicide.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  > The board fires Matt, stops chasing windmills, and settles with WP Engine The board is Matt and a PE firm Managing Partner, appointed by Matt. The third board member m (also appointed by Matt) doesn’t seem to have been active in any way shape or form in several years. I don’t see this happening.
shprd 2y ago
It's not new, Matt has been trying to reach an agreement for years.[1] To be fair, he has done everything he can for the health of the ecosystem for all these years. WP Engine leech off the WordPress brand from head to toe. Literally, from trademark to infrastructure, while Automattic covers the bill for the most part. Of course, legally, WPE doesn't have to contribute beyond its mouth but if we are going down that route then also Automattic doesn't have to put up with funding WPE operation anymore. I'm tired of people justifying WPE attitude and behavior by saying "legally, they don't have to contribute", well let's talk legal, everything happening to them is within those same lines too. Why are you complaining if it's legal? This is one of those "fuck around and find out" situation. Matt just run out of fucks to give, and decided it's better to teach the bully a lesson even if it comes at a cost. [1] https://youtu.be/H6F0PgMcKWM https://youtu.be/H6F0PgMcKWM
- aimazon 2y ago
  You're citing Matt but Matt has been proven to be untrustworthy. For example, his claim of many year long negotiations includes a claim that he had delivered a term sheet to WP Engine in May, but that claim was disproven by himself, no such term sheet was delivered. Additionally, the contributions that he counts from WP Engine are only those included in the "Five for the Future" program which Matt administrates. The actual contributions of WP Engine to the ecosystem include millions of dollars per year on event sponsorship, plugin development (WPGraphQL, ACF) and more. Read the lawsuit filed by WP Engine. No such negotiations existed. Matt has been arguing with WP Engine in his head. You may believe WP Engine's contributions to WordPress are disproportionately small for their size but make that argument on the basis of accurate information, not the fiction from Matt. Nobody likes WP Engine but Matt's lying has been so problematic that it is impossible to take his side unless you believe that integrity is optional.
  - shprd 2y ago
    > millions of dollars per year on event sponsorship Are you for real? Event sponsorship is part of the marketing budget. They're there to promote their company among competitors. It's a universal business expense. > plugin development ACF ACF is their own asset I mentioned this in my comment, they don't contribute significantly beyond their mouth. What you came with are just the receipts for what I said.

Scaevolus 2y ago

It is sad. I imagine a near future result will be WPE maintaining a fork of WordPress and the plugin repo, with WP demanding plugin authors disclaim any association with WPE.

throw16180339 2y ago

> Am I the only one who can't imagine a good outcome from all this? Here's a possible good outcome. 1. The board fires Matt, stops chasing windmills, and settles with WP Engine. I'm kind of surprised they haven't done so already - it's all downhill from here. He's either lying to them, not listening, or they're drinking the Kool Aid. 2. Matt steps down from the WordPress Foundation and transfers ownership of wordpress.org to them. He takes his hundreds of millions of dollars and does something else. 3. The new CEO apologizes to the community and establishes public processes for removing extensions and such. Checks and balances are added. 4. The WordPress Foundation's new director orders a house clearing. Many hosting providers and developers are invited to join the board. It's no longer an instrument of Matt's will, but represents the community. The first step will probably happen at some point. The second step could happen, but seems unlikely. I think there's a significant chance Matt would go on a rampage if he was fired. He clearly thinks of WordPress as his personal property. If he retains control of the foundation, there's nothing to stop him from continuing his crusade there. He's certainly got the funds to do so. The third step is effectively required if he's fired. It's even mentioned in the 48 Laws of Power. I don't think this outcome is particularly likely, but it could happen. People do sometimes win the lottery.

chiefalchemist 2y ago
I can see those, but I don't imagine there's even a fair chance of them happening. In my mind, shortly after the WordCamp US things should have leveled out. Someone should have pulled Matt aside and said, "OK, you vented. Pissed all over The Community who showed up, but you vented. Let's get this back on the rails..." It's possible that was said. But Matt's listening skills aren't good and lately have gotten worse. To me, the long this stays off the rails the less likely it is to get back on the rails. Someday this is going to be an HBR case study on how not to ensure your legacy. There should also be an HBR case study for Gutenberg, "How not to roll out a product."
- throw16180339 2y ago
  CEOs can get away with a lot if they're successful; Elon Musk is a good example. That only goes so far, though. If he wins the trademark lawsuit, he can probably do whatever he wants. If he loses, there's a shareholder lawsuit, or he continues escalating then at some point he'll be removed. One can only hope.
  - SXX 2y ago
    There are very good chances Matt control majority of Automattic. It's private company so he can do whatever he wants. Also their employee "shares" dont have any voting rights: https://ma.tt/2024/10/owner-mentality/ https://ma.tt/2024/10/owner-mentality/
  - chiefalchemist 2y ago
    Yeah, Musk and others come to mind. But WP is supposed to OSS. Musk didn't build his empire on the backs of volunteers. Musk has built multiple successful ventures. Matt has step in it once. In the context OSS Matt's behaviour is deplorable. His insistence on digging a deeper and deeper hole is freightening. It's digital self-emmolation. It's professional suicide.
FireBeyond 2y ago
> The board fires Matt, stops chasing windmills, and settles with WP Engine The board is Matt and a PE firm Managing Partner, appointed by Matt. The third board member m (also appointed by Matt) doesn’t seem to have been active in any way shape or form in several years. I don’t see this happening.

shprd 2y ago

It's not new, Matt has been trying to reach an agreement for years.[1] To be fair, he has done everything he can for the health of the ecosystem for all these years. WP Engine leech off the WordPress brand from head to toe. Literally, from trademark to infrastructure, while Automattic covers the bill for the most part. Of course, legally, WPE doesn't have to contribute beyond its mouth but if we are going down that route then also Automattic doesn't have to put up with funding WPE operation anymore. I'm tired of people justifying WPE attitude and behavior by saying "legally, they don't have to contribute", well let's talk legal, everything happening to them is within those same lines too. Why are you complaining if it's legal? This is one of those "fuck around and find out" situation. Matt just run out of fucks to give, and decided it's better to teach the bully a lesson even if it comes at a cost. [1] https://youtu.be/H6F0PgMcKWM https://youtu.be/H6F0PgMcKWM

aimazon 2y ago
You're citing Matt but Matt has been proven to be untrustworthy. For example, his claim of many year long negotiations includes a claim that he had delivered a term sheet to WP Engine in May, but that claim was disproven by himself, no such term sheet was delivered. Additionally, the contributions that he counts from WP Engine are only those included in the "Five for the Future" program which Matt administrates. The actual contributions of WP Engine to the ecosystem include millions of dollars per year on event sponsorship, plugin development (WPGraphQL, ACF) and more. Read the lawsuit filed by WP Engine. No such negotiations existed. Matt has been arguing with WP Engine in his head. You may believe WP Engine's contributions to WordPress are disproportionately small for their size but make that argument on the basis of accurate information, not the fiction from Matt. Nobody likes WP Engine but Matt's lying has been so problematic that it is impossible to take his side unless you believe that integrity is optional.
- shprd 2y ago
  > millions of dollars per year on event sponsorship Are you for real? Event sponsorship is part of the marketing budget. They're there to promote their company among competitors. It's a universal business expense. > plugin development ACF ACF is their own asset I mentioned this in my comment, they don't contribute significantly beyond their mouth. What you came with are just the receipts for what I said.