10 ms·

PayPal (USA) will automatically share data about you to participating stores

296 points by xyst 2y ago

xyst 2y ago
Automatic data sharing policy to take effect on November 27, 2024. If you do not want PP to share your data with “participating stores”, you need to “opt out”. Per e-mail sent regarding this policy update: “You can opt out of this at any time in your profile settings under "Data and Privacy."
- thwarted 2y ago
  Just logging in now, for the first time in years, I found two options that seem relevant. For the first one: it presented that I had given permission to "paypal shopping" to share my identity. I removed that permission. This may be the automatically added permission that I had to opt out of. This was in a list of discrete permissions, or apparently so, since there was only one entry, but it could be removed by clicking on a trashcan icon. For the second one, it was explicitly described with words like "share your info". This was a checkbox-slider, and it was already set to "off".
  - xyst 2y ago
    I didn’t revoke the “PayPal shopping” permission. But now I will. Wonder if PP system automatically moves that slider to off if you revoke the “PayPal Shopping” permission. I honestly don’t remember granting that explicitly. Then again, I have only used PP for rare occasions
  - xyst 2y ago
    Also, maybe it defaults to off if you reside in USA and live in one of these states: > Information gathered about you after the effective date of our updated Privacy Statement, November 27, 2024, will be shared with participating stores where you shop, unless you live in California, North Dakota, or Vermont
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      I'm in California and it was indeed off by default.
- TavsiE9s 2y ago
  Any indication on _which_ setting under "Data and Privacy"?
  - xyst 2y ago
    One thing I realized. This appears to be a change in their privacy policy for _US_ PayPal. If you are not in USA (ie, Canada), then it likely won’t be there as it’s not rolling out to you. For me: I opened the app, navigated to Profile > “Data and privacy” > “Personalized shopping” (under “Manage shared info” header) > toggle off “Let us share products, offers, and rewards you might like with participating stores” Haven’t checked on paypal.com
- _huayra_ 2y ago
  Here is the precise page, for anyone who wants to easily do it and amortize my settings perusing: https://www.paypal.com/myaccount/privacy/settings/recommendations https://www.paypal.com/myaccount/privacy/settings/recommenda...
  - RustyRussell 2y ago
    Don't see anything relevant in Australia...
  - grogenaut 2y ago
    thanks, the direct link works but I can't find it by browsing
  - accrual 2y ago
    Thank you, this worked fine for me in the US, "Sharing is off".
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  It’d also ridiculous that I can only delete my data by closing my account.
- LegitShady 2y ago
  option 2 - delete your paypal account, you dont need it.
wintermutestwin 2y ago
The whole reason why I use paypal for some purchases is to keep the vendor from knowing my PII. Paypal Enshitification level = 11
- tdeck 2y ago
  Doesn't the vendor get your name and address when paying through PayPal?
  - mrkramer 2y ago
    S/he probably meant payment information as credit card number, cvv etc. And there was no way before this for merchant X to know what Alice or Bob bought from merchant Y.
  - n_plus_1_acc 2y ago
    And E-Mail and phone number afair.
- AStonesThrow 2y ago
  PayPal already shares enough contact info for the purpose of shipping when I order physical goods. This new sharing appears to consist of marketing data on items you shop for, not necessarily PII, unless you consider your inseam to be classified top secret.
  - xyst 2y ago
    What PayPal lists in the Privacy Policy for the US is only an example. I interpreted the change as “PayPal collects any number of information on you. Gives you seemingly innocuous data such as inseam. But in reality, we may collect political affiliation, contacts, salary information, and share that with retailers that want our data”
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Is privacy.com an option for you? Disposable virtual payment card numbers and whatnot.
mrkramer 2y ago
[flagged]
- conradev 2y ago
  All of that fancy crypto goes through a few regulated CEX entry points to become USD because people and businesses pay for expenses (notably, taxes) in USD.
  - cjbgkagh 2y ago
    I think it's more the know your customer (KYC) laws that are shutting down the alternatives.
    - conradev 2y ago
      Those laws predate crypto, and so from the government's perspective the alternatives were operating illegally: https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-penalizes-peer-peer-virtual-currency-exchanger-violations-anti-money https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-penalizes-p... https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/man-sentenced-illegal-money-transmission-services-localbitcoins https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/man-sentenced-illegal-mo...
  - mrkramer 2y ago
    You can exchange your existing crypto for another crypto in numerous ways and there use to be localbitcoins.com where you could buy crypto with cash and vice versa p2p in person.
    - kelnos 2y ago
      "Used to be" isn't really helpful.
      - mrkramer 2y ago
        They probably couldn't figure out the legal part behind p2p in person crypto exchange but I didn't follow the crypto scene for the last few years so idk if there are any alternatives to localbitcoins.com The most safe and private way would be to mine crypto coins and then spend them or exchange them for other crypto or digital currencies. Even Satoshi was pro exchange[0]. [0] https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/posts/bitcointalk/95/ https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/posts/bitcointalk/95/
autoexec 2y ago
PayPal has always been a disaster. There have been so many stories of people having their accounts frozen for long periods of time while whatever passes for "customer service" at PayPal jerked them around or outright ignored them that I stopped using PayPal a very long time ago and I've never once regretted it. I see that paypalsucks.com is gone now. Not sure when that happened (archive.org is down too), but really, people have had more than enough warning about what a shit company PayPal is, so anyone continuing to get screwed over by them now is pretty much asking for it.
noname120 2y ago
Is it only in the US? My PayPal account is from Switzerland. I haven't received an email and the option doesn't appear in "Data and Privacy" either.
- xyst 2y ago
  yes - appears to be only US, for now. edit: updated title to add (USA)
  - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
    US PayPal is not a bank. Other incarnations are and will be subject to the relevant banking regulations.
    - actionfromafar 2y ago
      Ha, I forgot about that. The US Freedom is really shiny over at Paypal, a bank free to not follow banking regulations, and no pesky liberal privacy, except in California.
nurtbo 2y ago
Privacy laws actually work! Let’s pass more of them. > Information gathered about you after the effective date of our updated Privacy Statement, November 27, 2024, will be shared with participating stores where you shop, *unless you live in California, North Dakota, or Vermont.* For PayPal customers in California, North Dakota, or Vermont, we’ll only share your information with those merchants if you tell us to do so
- darknavi 2y ago
  This is so open faced and gross. It reminds of someone talking about getting paid minimum wage. If you get paid minimum wage, what your employer is saying is, "I would pay you less if I was legally allowed to do so." It also reminds me of State Farm's (auto/home insurance in the US) website with this link at the bottom: > Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information (CA residents only)
  - toomuchtodo 2y ago
    Don’t get mad, get active. Keep cranking on the policy ratchet, progress and success is clearly possible.
    - tekknik 2y ago
      The “progress” is driving a wedge so deep in US society that many think there won’t be a country left after the progressives are done. They have all but destroyed any national identity and made us very easy to invade and continue to try to do so with gun control laws. you’re happy about progress, I’m terrified because the progressives don’t consider whether something they want is good or bad for the country, they just demand it regardless.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - toomuchtodo 2y ago
        My comment speaks specifically to consumer/citizen data privacy, which shouldn’t be a partisan or contentious issue (imho).
levocardia 2y ago
I've gotten the sense that PayPal is circling the drain lately. Whenever I log on (which is rare) I'm bombarded by modals and banners offering payment plans, digital coupons, etc. When I receive money, there's lots of clever UI design that's trying to trick me into transferring it instantly (for a fee) or keeping it in PayPal, as opposed to withdrawing it to my bank account. I suppose this is just one more sign the company is in financial trouble.
- homebrewer 2y ago
  Lately? It's been that way for decades. I'll add one more to your list: since many things are paid in USD, and most of us live outside the US, your payment goes through a currency conversion. Up until a few years ago it was possible to configure PayPal to let your bank convert using bank's own rates, although it was hidden behind dark UI patterns. Then they removed it and now force you to run conversion at PayPal rates, which are just terrible, much worse than any bank I've ever used. This was about the time I stopped using PayPal completely, so I can't say exactly how much of a price hike this caused, but it's probably around 10%.
  - Novosell 2y ago
    I can still defer conversion to my bank.
  - gruez 2y ago
    >Then they removed it and now force you to run conversion at PayPal rates, which are just terrible, much worse than any bank I've ever used. When was this? As of a few months ago it was working fine for me, although it required a bit of finagling to get it to work on new cards I added.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    I have thought PayPal was circling the drain for so long that, honestly, it probably says more about me than PayPal. Still though, I don’t get it, as far as I can tell they are just… essentially doing the same thing as credit card companies, but with less regulatory protection for their customers.(?) Like they made sense 20 years ago when banks didn’t know about the internet. But now they are befuddling.
zaptrem 2y ago
> No matter where you live, you’ll always be able to exercise your right to opt out of this data sharing by updating your preference settings in your account under “Data and Privacy.” There is currently no opt out button or switch on this page on their website when signed in through either my personal or business account. Edit: Someone further down direct linked to it here https://www.paypal.com/myaccount/privacy/settings/recommendations https://www.paypal.com/myaccount/privacy/settings/recommenda... No idea how they got this screen, as when I click back it gives me the same menu I saw before where this option doesn’t exist and the website design is different.
- kelnos 2y ago
  I managed to get there through the main privacy settings screen, but I'm a California resident, so PayPal is legally required to give me that option. Perhaps you live somewhere else? But maybe PayPal hasn't removed access to the setting, just the link to it?
grahamj 2y ago
Glad I deleted my account some time ago
sourcepluck 2y ago
I have tried to delete my PayPal account on ten different occasions (I mean, something like that), and never succeed to do so. A maze of dark patterns and crappy UI and buttons that go nowhere. I even sent a couple of emails one of the times, and then gave up when there was no response. They're a heinous company.
- latexr 2y ago
  Anecdotally, I deleted my PayPal account a few weeks ago and found it pretty easy. I’m in Europe, which may have made the difference.
  - sourcepluck 2y ago
    I'm in Europe! I haven't tried in ages, a few years I suppose. I'm going to try again, bolstered by your comment. Thank you, kind netizen. Maybe they've been obliged to stop messing around as much with some of the new laws of the past years.
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  I battled this. Turns out the key was to get the CFPB involved. Within a few weeks I received a letter of explanation from their legal department and my account was deleted. Companies hate getting a letter from regulatory agencies because it frequently has to be dealt with in part by legal, which is an expensive department to clog. Edit: I see you are in Europe. So the above doesn’t directly apply, although there may be a regulatory agency that is equivalent that you can gripe to.
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    The option "Close Account" is halfway down the page under "Settings". So just a single press to find it after logging in. (EU here.)
    - OJFord 2y ago
      Been there, tried that. You must first provide photo ID, name, address, phone number - all sorts of data not presently on the account - in order to verify identity to delete the account. And then of course they'll retain it all under the guise of financial regulation (legitimately) and probably sell it (scummily).
raytopia 2y ago
Are there payment companies that don't sell user's data?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
usehackernews 2y ago
I work in Payments. This must be related to their new product - Fastlane. Fastlane is an express checkout product, similar to ShopPay. Even if you have never used a website, you authenticate with OTP and all your information (Address & Payment Methods) is available. Originally, merchants could not use this data to make customer accounts. This was not ideal for us merchants as there was no method to login to track your order information. PayPal came to me this week saying they were updating their legal agreement to allow merchants to create customer accounts. (Express checkout options will soon be everywhere - Stripe, Shopify, PayPal, Zelle/Paze are all competing in this space now)
- kelnos 2y ago
  > This was not ideal for us merchants as there was no method to login to track your order information. You don't need accounts for that. Allow customers to check their order status using the order number and some other identifying bit that you are allowed to get/keep, such as last name or billing zip code. Merchants have been doing this since the very start of e-commerce. (If you can't keep anything, then just make the order numbers long random strings, and use that alone, and/or generate a random, unique URL to send in the order confirmation email.) If a merchant creates an account for me without my consent, I delete that account and never buy from them again. Stop abusing your customers' personal information. I'm glad I live in California, and have already opted out to PayPal sharing my information for this, as is my legal right.
  - hakfoo 2y ago
    Or email them the actual tracking number. I don't need to go to your website to read the same information as usps.com but in a different header.
    - magnetowasright 2y ago
      Oh my goodness this drives me insane. Ebay sucks for this. Just tell me the info! I shouldn't need to log in. I do my best to avoid merchants who use shippit because of this. At least shippit tells me the actual carrier and the carrier tracking number so I can do what I need to do. Even if the third party shippit tracking is up to date I still don't want to use shippit's tracking page anyway. I had to reach out to (deeply patronising!) customer service for Sendle because they don't show any carrier information at all on their tracking page. None. I'm in Australia, and they are an Australian company so it's not like they're unfamiliar with the way things work here. Sendle tracking page never has any tracking information, and if I'm lucky I'll get a 'your parcel has been picked up from the sender!' email a week after the thing has been delivered. It's so frustrating! It's so needless; sendle already got their slice of the financial pie, and as far as I can see, their value proposition isn't going to be negatively impacted by simply choosing not to obfuscate the carrier info, so just give me the information! I think it would make the value prop better; if I am not going to be home when a parcel delivery is scheduled (which again has never been visible on anything I've received via sendle), being able to contact and coordinate with the carrier prior to a failed delivery can be necessary. If I knew what day parcels were coming and by which carrier so I can make sure I'm home at the time they typically show up. Also maybe don't be rude when customers ask for basic information that should already be provided by default! You're supposed to be a shipping company! Useless. I just don't understand the motives of making tracking hard or impossible (thanks, sendle). Ebay making you log in means you might just buy more stuff while you're here, but for third party shipping companies whose customers are businesses trying to ship things I don't understand the value of (developing, hosting, integrating with carrier tracking, etc.) their tracking pages at all, obfuscating the carrier info or not. Is it just because the shippit tracking page looks nicer than most carrier tracking? I'm probs missing something obvious? If anyone has any insight, I would genuinely love to understand.
OrvalWintermute 2y ago
Will be axing my paypal account if this goes through
- kelnos 2y ago
  That's not an "if". They're doing it. I'd suggest you start the deletion process now; I hear it's tricky if you live in a place without decent privacy laws.
  - OJFord 2y ago
    I've been trying for years in a place with GDPR.
sub7 2y ago
These asshats also have the world's worst OTP page that does not auto submit when you type out the 6 numbers and still doesn't submit on pressing Enter. Everytime I have to move my mouse to the Submit button, I think about how their UX to nickel and dime microfees from you is super slick.
- magnetowasright 2y ago
  Yes, it's so frustrating. Their OTP/MFA is still not configurable, as far as I can see. When trying to figure out how to disable passwordless/OTP only log in, I saw someone trying to do the same describing how without the ability to disable OTP login, their kid logs in to their paypal by using the OTP text and they shouldn't have to delete their paypal or work around it with phone settings to have some basic security on their paypal account. It's such poor security because of spoofing attacks anyway, but anyone who knows your email and can see your phone can log in to your paypal by default. I also hate their stupid 'try another way -> sign in with password' flow on their log in. It's my password, not 'trying another way'. Ah, their UX is so bad.
javiramos 2y ago
Does anyone know if Venmo has a similar policy? Lately I’ve been trying to use apple pay/cash as much as I can for peer to peer payments but Venmo is still quite popular.
javiramos 2y ago
Does anyone know of a browser plugin or similar that could summarize, in real-time as I browse, a given website’s privacy and data use policy. Seems like reading through lengthy and verbose privacy policies could be great application of LLMs.
kotaKat 2y ago
Joke's on PayPal. I got an email that said "you can't do business with PayPal anymore" for no reason, so I guess they've got jack and shit to share from me?

296 points by xyst 2y ago

xyst 2y ago

Automatic data sharing policy to take effect on November 27, 2024. If you do not want PP to share your data with “participating stores”, you need to “opt out”. Per e-mail sent regarding this policy update: “You can opt out of this at any time in your profile settings under "Data and Privacy."

thwarted 2y ago
Just logging in now, for the first time in years, I found two options that seem relevant. For the first one: it presented that I had given permission to "paypal shopping" to share my identity. I removed that permission. This may be the automatically added permission that I had to opt out of. This was in a list of discrete permissions, or apparently so, since there was only one entry, but it could be removed by clicking on a trashcan icon. For the second one, it was explicitly described with words like "share your info". This was a checkbox-slider, and it was already set to "off".
- xyst 2y ago
  I didn’t revoke the “PayPal shopping” permission. But now I will. Wonder if PP system automatically moves that slider to off if you revoke the “PayPal Shopping” permission. I honestly don’t remember granting that explicitly. Then again, I have only used PP for rare occasions
- xyst 2y ago
  Also, maybe it defaults to off if you reside in USA and live in one of these states: > Information gathered about you after the effective date of our updated Privacy Statement, November 27, 2024, will be shared with participating stores where you shop, unless you live in California, North Dakota, or Vermont
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    I'm in California and it was indeed off by default.
TavsiE9s 2y ago
Any indication on _which_ setting under "Data and Privacy"?
- xyst 2y ago
  One thing I realized. This appears to be a change in their privacy policy for _US_ PayPal. If you are not in USA (ie, Canada), then it likely won’t be there as it’s not rolling out to you. For me: I opened the app, navigated to Profile > “Data and privacy” > “Personalized shopping” (under “Manage shared info” header) > toggle off “Let us share products, offers, and rewards you might like with participating stores” Haven’t checked on paypal.com
_huayra_ 2y ago
Here is the precise page, for anyone who wants to easily do it and amortize my settings perusing: https://www.paypal.com/myaccount/privacy/settings/recommendations https://www.paypal.com/myaccount/privacy/settings/recommenda...
- RustyRussell 2y ago
  Don't see anything relevant in Australia...
- grogenaut 2y ago
  thanks, the direct link works but I can't find it by browsing
- accrual 2y ago
  Thank you, this worked fine for me in the US, "Sharing is off".
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
It’d also ridiculous that I can only delete my data by closing my account.
LegitShady 2y ago
option 2 - delete your paypal account, you dont need it.

wintermutestwin 2y ago

The whole reason why I use paypal for some purchases is to keep the vendor from knowing my PII. Paypal Enshitification level = 11

tdeck 2y ago
Doesn't the vendor get your name and address when paying through PayPal?
- mrkramer 2y ago
  S/he probably meant payment information as credit card number, cvv etc. And there was no way before this for merchant X to know what Alice or Bob bought from merchant Y.
- n_plus_1_acc 2y ago
  And E-Mail and phone number afair.
AStonesThrow 2y ago
PayPal already shares enough contact info for the purpose of shipping when I order physical goods. This new sharing appears to consist of marketing data on items you shop for, not necessarily PII, unless you consider your inseam to be classified top secret.
- xyst 2y ago
  What PayPal lists in the Privacy Policy for the US is only an example. I interpreted the change as “PayPal collects any number of information on you. Gives you seemingly innocuous data such as inseam. But in reality, we may collect political affiliation, contacts, salary information, and share that with retailers that want our data”
toomuchtodo 2y ago
Is privacy.com an option for you? Disposable virtual payment card numbers and whatnot.

mrkramer 2y ago

[flagged]

conradev 2y ago
All of that fancy crypto goes through a few regulated CEX entry points to become USD because people and businesses pay for expenses (notably, taxes) in USD.
- cjbgkagh 2y ago
  I think it's more the know your customer (KYC) laws that are shutting down the alternatives.
  - conradev 2y ago
    Those laws predate crypto, and so from the government's perspective the alternatives were operating illegally: https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-penalizes-peer-peer-virtual-currency-exchanger-violations-anti-money https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-penalizes-p... https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/man-sentenced-illegal-money-transmission-services-localbitcoins https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/man-sentenced-illegal-mo...
- mrkramer 2y ago
  You can exchange your existing crypto for another crypto in numerous ways and there use to be localbitcoins.com where you could buy crypto with cash and vice versa p2p in person.
  - kelnos 2y ago
    "Used to be" isn't really helpful.
    - mrkramer 2y ago
      They probably couldn't figure out the legal part behind p2p in person crypto exchange but I didn't follow the crypto scene for the last few years so idk if there are any alternatives to localbitcoins.com The most safe and private way would be to mine crypto coins and then spend them or exchange them for other crypto or digital currencies. Even Satoshi was pro exchange[0]. [0] https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/posts/bitcointalk/95/ https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/posts/bitcointalk/95/

autoexec 2y ago

PayPal has always been a disaster. There have been so many stories of people having their accounts frozen for long periods of time while whatever passes for "customer service" at PayPal jerked them around or outright ignored them that I stopped using PayPal a very long time ago and I've never once regretted it. I see that paypalsucks.com is gone now. Not sure when that happened (archive.org is down too), but really, people have had more than enough warning about what a shit company PayPal is, so anyone continuing to get screwed over by them now is pretty much asking for it.

noname120 2y ago

Is it only in the US? My PayPal account is from Switzerland. I haven't received an email and the option doesn't appear in "Data and Privacy" either.

xyst 2y ago
yes - appears to be only US, for now. edit: updated title to add (USA)
- kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
  US PayPal is not a bank. Other incarnations are and will be subject to the relevant banking regulations.
  - actionfromafar 2y ago
    Ha, I forgot about that. The US Freedom is really shiny over at Paypal, a bank free to not follow banking regulations, and no pesky liberal privacy, except in California.

nurtbo 2y ago

Privacy laws actually work! Let’s pass more of them. > Information gathered about you after the effective date of our updated Privacy Statement, November 27, 2024, will be shared with participating stores where you shop, *unless you live in California, North Dakota, or Vermont.* For PayPal customers in California, North Dakota, or Vermont, we’ll only share your information with those merchants if you tell us to do so

darknavi 2y ago
This is so open faced and gross. It reminds of someone talking about getting paid minimum wage. If you get paid minimum wage, what your employer is saying is, "I would pay you less if I was legally allowed to do so." It also reminds me of State Farm's (auto/home insurance in the US) website with this link at the bottom: > Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information (CA residents only)
- toomuchtodo 2y ago
  Don’t get mad, get active. Keep cranking on the policy ratchet, progress and success is clearly possible.
  - tekknik 2y ago
    The “progress” is driving a wedge so deep in US society that many think there won’t be a country left after the progressives are done. They have all but destroyed any national identity and made us very easy to invade and continue to try to do so with gun control laws. you’re happy about progress, I’m terrified because the progressives don’t consider whether something they want is good or bad for the country, they just demand it regardless.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - toomuchtodo 2y ago
      My comment speaks specifically to consumer/citizen data privacy, which shouldn’t be a partisan or contentious issue (imho).

levocardia 2y ago

I've gotten the sense that PayPal is circling the drain lately. Whenever I log on (which is rare) I'm bombarded by modals and banners offering payment plans, digital coupons, etc. When I receive money, there's lots of clever UI design that's trying to trick me into transferring it instantly (for a fee) or keeping it in PayPal, as opposed to withdrawing it to my bank account. I suppose this is just one more sign the company is in financial trouble.

homebrewer 2y ago
Lately? It's been that way for decades. I'll add one more to your list: since many things are paid in USD, and most of us live outside the US, your payment goes through a currency conversion. Up until a few years ago it was possible to configure PayPal to let your bank convert using bank's own rates, although it was hidden behind dark UI patterns. Then they removed it and now force you to run conversion at PayPal rates, which are just terrible, much worse than any bank I've ever used. This was about the time I stopped using PayPal completely, so I can't say exactly how much of a price hike this caused, but it's probably around 10%.
- Novosell 2y ago
  I can still defer conversion to my bank.
- gruez 2y ago
  >Then they removed it and now force you to run conversion at PayPal rates, which are just terrible, much worse than any bank I've ever used. When was this? As of a few months ago it was working fine for me, although it required a bit of finagling to get it to work on new cards I added.
- bee_rider 2y ago
  I have thought PayPal was circling the drain for so long that, honestly, it probably says more about me than PayPal. Still though, I don’t get it, as far as I can tell they are just… essentially doing the same thing as credit card companies, but with less regulatory protection for their customers.(?) Like they made sense 20 years ago when banks didn’t know about the internet. But now they are befuddling.

zaptrem 2y ago

> No matter where you live, you’ll always be able to exercise your right to opt out of this data sharing by updating your preference settings in your account under “Data and Privacy.” There is currently no opt out button or switch on this page on their website when signed in through either my personal or business account. Edit: Someone further down direct linked to it here https://www.paypal.com/myaccount/privacy/settings/recommendations https://www.paypal.com/myaccount/privacy/settings/recommenda... No idea how they got this screen, as when I click back it gives me the same menu I saw before where this option doesn’t exist and the website design is different.

kelnos 2y ago
I managed to get there through the main privacy settings screen, but I'm a California resident, so PayPal is legally required to give me that option. Perhaps you live somewhere else? But maybe PayPal hasn't removed access to the setting, just the link to it?

grahamj 2y ago

Glad I deleted my account some time ago

sourcepluck 2y ago

I have tried to delete my PayPal account on ten different occasions (I mean, something like that), and never succeed to do so. A maze of dark patterns and crappy UI and buttons that go nowhere. I even sent a couple of emails one of the times, and then gave up when there was no response. They're a heinous company.

latexr 2y ago
Anecdotally, I deleted my PayPal account a few weeks ago and found it pretty easy. I’m in Europe, which may have made the difference.
- sourcepluck 2y ago
  I'm in Europe! I haven't tried in ages, a few years I suppose. I'm going to try again, bolstered by your comment. Thank you, kind netizen. Maybe they've been obliged to stop messing around as much with some of the new laws of the past years.
dghlsakjg 2y ago
I battled this. Turns out the key was to get the CFPB involved. Within a few weeks I received a letter of explanation from their legal department and my account was deleted. Companies hate getting a letter from regulatory agencies because it frequently has to be dealt with in part by legal, which is an expensive department to clog. Edit: I see you are in Europe. So the above doesn’t directly apply, although there may be a regulatory agency that is equivalent that you can gripe to.
- Symbiote 2y ago
  The option "Close Account" is halfway down the page under "Settings". So just a single press to find it after logging in. (EU here.)
  - OJFord 2y ago
    Been there, tried that. You must first provide photo ID, name, address, phone number - all sorts of data not presently on the account - in order to verify identity to delete the account. And then of course they'll retain it all under the guise of financial regulation (legitimately) and probably sell it (scummily).

raytopia 2y ago

Are there payment companies that don't sell user's data?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

usehackernews 2y ago

I work in Payments. This must be related to their new product - Fastlane. Fastlane is an express checkout product, similar to ShopPay. Even if you have never used a website, you authenticate with OTP and all your information (Address & Payment Methods) is available. Originally, merchants could not use this data to make customer accounts. This was not ideal for us merchants as there was no method to login to track your order information. PayPal came to me this week saying they were updating their legal agreement to allow merchants to create customer accounts. (Express checkout options will soon be everywhere - Stripe, Shopify, PayPal, Zelle/Paze are all competing in this space now)

kelnos 2y ago
> This was not ideal for us merchants as there was no method to login to track your order information. You don't need accounts for that. Allow customers to check their order status using the order number and some other identifying bit that you are allowed to get/keep, such as last name or billing zip code. Merchants have been doing this since the very start of e-commerce. (If you can't keep anything, then just make the order numbers long random strings, and use that alone, and/or generate a random, unique URL to send in the order confirmation email.) If a merchant creates an account for me without my consent, I delete that account and never buy from them again. Stop abusing your customers' personal information. I'm glad I live in California, and have already opted out to PayPal sharing my information for this, as is my legal right.
- hakfoo 2y ago
  Or email them the actual tracking number. I don't need to go to your website to read the same information as usps.com but in a different header.
  - magnetowasright 2y ago
    Oh my goodness this drives me insane. Ebay sucks for this. Just tell me the info! I shouldn't need to log in. I do my best to avoid merchants who use shippit because of this. At least shippit tells me the actual carrier and the carrier tracking number so I can do what I need to do. Even if the third party shippit tracking is up to date I still don't want to use shippit's tracking page anyway. I had to reach out to (deeply patronising!) customer service for Sendle because they don't show any carrier information at all on their tracking page. None. I'm in Australia, and they are an Australian company so it's not like they're unfamiliar with the way things work here. Sendle tracking page never has any tracking information, and if I'm lucky I'll get a 'your parcel has been picked up from the sender!' email a week after the thing has been delivered. It's so frustrating! It's so needless; sendle already got their slice of the financial pie, and as far as I can see, their value proposition isn't going to be negatively impacted by simply choosing not to obfuscate the carrier info, so just give me the information! I think it would make the value prop better; if I am not going to be home when a parcel delivery is scheduled (which again has never been visible on anything I've received via sendle), being able to contact and coordinate with the carrier prior to a failed delivery can be necessary. If I knew what day parcels were coming and by which carrier so I can make sure I'm home at the time they typically show up. Also maybe don't be rude when customers ask for basic information that should already be provided by default! You're supposed to be a shipping company! Useless. I just don't understand the motives of making tracking hard or impossible (thanks, sendle). Ebay making you log in means you might just buy more stuff while you're here, but for third party shipping companies whose customers are businesses trying to ship things I don't understand the value of (developing, hosting, integrating with carrier tracking, etc.) their tracking pages at all, obfuscating the carrier info or not. Is it just because the shippit tracking page looks nicer than most carrier tracking? I'm probs missing something obvious? If anyone has any insight, I would genuinely love to understand.

OrvalWintermute 2y ago

Will be axing my paypal account if this goes through

kelnos 2y ago
That's not an "if". They're doing it. I'd suggest you start the deletion process now; I hear it's tricky if you live in a place without decent privacy laws.
- OJFord 2y ago
  I've been trying for years in a place with GDPR.

sub7 2y ago

These asshats also have the world's worst OTP page that does not auto submit when you type out the 6 numbers and still doesn't submit on pressing Enter. Everytime I have to move my mouse to the Submit button, I think about how their UX to nickel and dime microfees from you is super slick.

magnetowasright 2y ago
Yes, it's so frustrating. Their OTP/MFA is still not configurable, as far as I can see. When trying to figure out how to disable passwordless/OTP only log in, I saw someone trying to do the same describing how without the ability to disable OTP login, their kid logs in to their paypal by using the OTP text and they shouldn't have to delete their paypal or work around it with phone settings to have some basic security on their paypal account. It's such poor security because of spoofing attacks anyway, but anyone who knows your email and can see your phone can log in to your paypal by default. I also hate their stupid 'try another way -> sign in with password' flow on their log in. It's my password, not 'trying another way'. Ah, their UX is so bad.

javiramos 2y ago

Does anyone know if Venmo has a similar policy? Lately I’ve been trying to use apple pay/cash as much as I can for peer to peer payments but Venmo is still quite popular.

javiramos 2y ago

Does anyone know of a browser plugin or similar that could summarize, in real-time as I browse, a given website’s privacy and data use policy. Seems like reading through lengthy and verbose privacy policies could be great application of LLMs.

kotaKat 2y ago

Joke's on PayPal. I got an email that said "you can't do business with PayPal anymore" for no reason, so I guess they've got jack and shit to share from me?