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The ACF plugin on the WordPress directory has been taken over by WordPress.org
- NetOpWibby 2y agoMatt has been busy being a tool https://bullenweg.com/ https://bullenweg.com/ I feel for everyone that uses Wordpress.
- LeoPanthera 2y agoWhy on earth is Matt’s nosebleed on this? Making fun of peoples medical issues is tasteless, and makes me wonder about the motivation behind the rest of the page.
- varun_chopra 2y agoAgreed. For context, Matt posted the following on the original video: > Around 20 minutes in, my nose started bleeding, which sometimes happens when I travel too much. Prior to this interview, I was on 30+ hour flights returning from Durban, where I was on safari, to Houston. I'm sorry for not noticing it happening; it's very embarrassing.
- ValentineC 2y agoMatt gave his reply on the nosebleed 6 hours ago. It was first brought up in r/Wordpress 17 hours ago.
- bigiain 2y agoWhich is kinda exactly the thing people say while in the middle of irrational behavior and psychotic episodes brought on by cocaine abuse. That _might_ not be what's doing on. But it's entirely plausible given <waves hands around at everything>
- bullenweg 2y agoThe inclusion of the nosebleed is not to make fun of Matt, it is to highlight something relevant to the medical issues that people have speculated about. The motivation is to bring to light Matt's wide-ranging exploits in one place, given it is abnormal for someone involved in high-profile litigation to spend their time arguing on Hacker News, Reddit, Twitter and live streams.
- jzb 2y agoPeople are signaling to you that this particular thing crosses a line. You'd do well to heed that and take that part out. Speculating on his health / insinuating things undermines the points you're trying to make.
- bullenweg 2y agoMatt doesn't appear to have a problem with the website ("It actually is an excellent website"[1]). Please create a Pull Request with any changes you think necessary. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41821837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41821837
- chiefalchemist 2y agoIn the context of man off the rails, wrecking careers and reputations, etc. the nose bleed is a possible signal. It's not something to be ignored, again based on the context. Frankly, it would explain a lot. Cause as it is, it's baffling.
- neilv 2y ago> People are signaling to you that this particular thing crosses a line. It's a contagious theme.
- CPLX 2y agoThey are making a not-subtle insinuation that he’s engaging in stimulant drug abuse. How that relates to an executive engaged in sudden extremely aggressive and over the top and highly personal scorched earth attack campaign over what appear to be fairly routine open source community squabbles is left as an exercise for the reader.
- gg-plz 2y agoI’ve seen a bunch of people in addiction recovery, and Matt’s erratic self destructive aggressive behaviour seems very familiar. Nosebleeds too. It’s probably just a coincidence, but…
- thiel_is_hitler 2y agoI would consider that it's relevant in case he has been insufflating anything that would explain his erratic behavior. That said, as someone in recovery, it is still not something to make fun of. He does clearly need medical help whether that be for drugs, mania or whatever it is he has going on. The "traveling too much" is exactly the same kind of BS I would have said in my addiction. Is he referring to air pressure? Because that would happen on the plane, not hours later.
- Shekelphile 2y agoHe's never really been a good person or savvy in general and IMO people put him on pedestal before recently. This is the guy who bought tumblr and hasn't done anything of merit with it after all.
- ChocolateGod 2y agoI thought Tumblr given its 'content' is beyond any redemption.
- Shekelphile 2y agoNot saying turning it back into a porn platform would have been the best move in the long-term but I think it would have at least made more sense than whatever he's done with it since acquiring it.
- unsnap_biceps 2y agoAdditional discussion is happening on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41821336 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41821336
- ceejayoz 2y agoThis one has a much clearer title, though.
- ValentineC 2y agoI didn't want to editorialise the title when I submitted, but yes, the tweet does make for a better title.
- wongogue 2y agoBut that one has matt replying to all comments.
- rsynnott 2y agoI mean, I’m not sure I’d see that as a _positive_.
- xenago 2y agoMuch better title, thanks
- creshal 2y agoWordpress is immolating itself a lot these days, what gives? Is investor money running out?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- coolgoose 2y agoThis is definitely going a bit too crazy. I sympathized with Wordpress a lot in the initial drama, but this is going downhill fast. Blocking somebody's access to the plugin repository, not accepting their patches, and then 'releasing' your own 'secure' version is just abuse, period.
- sangnoir 2y agoIt's not inherently abusive, consider NPM resurrecting an earlier version of leftpad against author's wish. Who should provide security updates to an open source package when author no longer has access to the repository - voluntarily or otherwise?
- wongogue 2y ago> updates to an open source package when author no longer has access to the repository Give them the access. It's not like they forgot the password or are AWOL.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 2y agoThat would be more compelling if the only change was the security patch itself. Maybe a link to the “only supported” fork.
- lolinder 2y ago> voluntarily or otherwise? You say this like there's not much difference between the two, but there's a world of difference. One is someone yanking a repo and breaking millions of builds across the world and the maintainers of npm stepping in to fix things (in a move that is still controversial, mind you). The other is the maintainers of the WordPress plugin repository starting a self-described "nuclear war" with the plugin maintainers, banning them from the repo, publicly disclosing a security vulnerability in the plugin, then hijacking it to save the day. One is a potentially misguided step to solve a real problem. What Matt is doing here is just cosplaying Syndrome from The Incredibles.
- thanksgiving 2y ago
- sccxy 2y agoTrust is lost forever. These are good times for Wordpress alternatives to shine.
- beezle 2y agoWhat's a good alternative to say the Wordpress personal plan? (note: its a goodness of heart type thing for others so low cost is important)
- ValentineC 2y agoWordPress dot org is free if self-hosted. WordPress dot com has a free plan too. You should be more specific about what you're trying to achieve.
- beezle 2y agoA fan blog that can get a lot of comments over a short span of time. Any alternative must have a hosted option, I'm not playing admin for something that already takes up a lot of my time, as I said out of the goodness of my heart and wallet. The best I can say for wordpress is that myself, other contributors and our commenters tolerate it, though quite often it leans towards hate it. I've yet to hear anyone say they love it hence the ask.
- ValentineC 2y agoStatic site generator like Astro/Eleventy/Hugo and Disqus, maybe. Take your pick of commenting platforms from this 2021 thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28258319 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28258319
- capitainenemo 2y agoDrupal?
- chx 2y ago
- gjsman-1000 2y agoCalling it right now: If WP Engine is reading, fork WordPress now. Call it FreshPress. Put $25M into it, team up with other hosts, abandon the editor everyone hates, and relicense it to GPLv3 so Matt can’t have any of it. (Note that WordPress’s license specifically says GPLv2 or later.) Maybe support Composer like sane modern PHP projects. Maybe put the most important plugins like Woo into core and make it an all-in-one Squarespace competitor. Once it’s ahead, legal, and Matt can’t borrow; then he’ll realize his bluff has been called. Make WordPress the new B2.
- maxloh 2y agoA exception will be need for GPL licensed plugins/themes (and their forks).
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- normie3000 2y agoWhat's B2?
- gjsman-1000 2y agoB2/Cafelog is the software that WordPress started as a fork of. WordPress is a fork that basically killed the original project. No reason that history can’t repeat itself.
- mirzap 2y agoI agree. This is the best move right now. WordPress needed modernization anyway
- partiallypro 2y agoThis is all good, but I think packaging Woo into core is not a good idea. WordPress is so large; I don't know how the plugin community will react to a fork. It is going to cause a lot of problems.
- gloflo 2y ago
- henning 2y agoHow can someone like Jeffrey Zeldman believe in the work they're doing when the company acts like this? I understand there are bills to pay and the job market is terrible. Do what you need to do to survive.
- lexicality 2y agoIt's very funny that Matt's original complaint was that WPEngine didn't contribute enough, and he has now banned them from contributing and stolen what they had previously provided
- andrew_lettuce 2y agoDo you think they were all of the sudden going to dramatically start contributing? I see this more as symbolically shutting them out. Nothing in this ongoing situation is about more than optics now
- mplewis 2y agoThey were already contributing as evidenced by the existence of ACF.
- etchalon 2y agoThey bought ACF.
- ChallengeEup237 2y agoAnd continue to update it. Automattic bought WooCommerce.
- bastawhiz 2y agoWhat I'm hearing is that Automattic didn't buy ACF.
- microtonal 2y agoI think they meant that WPEngine bought ACF: https://wpengine.com/blog/wp-engine-acquires-delicious-brains-plugins-including-advanced-custom-fields/ https://wpengine.com/blog/wp-engine-acquires-delicious-brain...
- 2y ago
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- blueaquilae 2y agoIs there any legal operation possible?
- Sebguer 2y agoWPEngine is already suing Matt, so this will get added to that pile, it seems like.
- petee 2y agoThis is the press release explaining the move - https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/secure-custom-fields/ https://wordpress.org/news/2024/10/secure-custom-fields/
- rpgbr 2y agoPathetic. I guess this is a GPL violation? I mean, taking over a code in a directory with million of customers isn't “forking it”, right?
- mirzap 2y agoNo, it's not. Matt is causing damage to the OSS ecosystem far beyond WordPress.
- mthoms 2y agoFun fact. The new plugin uses "ACF" throughout the code, throughout the plugin reviews, and the url slug is literally "advanced-custom-fields". Guess who owns the trademark for both those things? WPEngine, that's who. https://imgur.com/a/D7YHn4e https://imgur.com/a/D7YHn4e This guy is so bad at this that it's not even funny anymore.
- noizejoy 2y ago“Under Examination”? https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=98321164&caseSearchType=US_APPLICATION&caseType=DEFAULT&searchType=statusSearch https://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=98321164&caseSearchType=U...
- mthoms 2y ago>LIVE/APPLICATION/Under Examination. The trademark application has been accepted by the Office (has met the minimum filing requirements) and that this application has been assigned to an examiner. Good catch. Looks like it was filed just under a year ago, and hasn't been finalized yet. If it is approved, I think the original filing date is considered the registration date, so Matt's usage would (at that point) qualify as infringement. However, I am NAL.
- noizejoy 2y agoI’m not AL either, but I’ve been close to a couple of trademark applications and even a court case - so that’s why I was curious. Looking through some of the attached PDF, I wonder if it was, or will be denied unless amended, because the words are just too common and/or the scope for the trademark is being cast too wide? The examiner apparently sent a notice to the applicant earlier this year, and there seems to be some sort of extension to the application in play. This may suggest, that unless amended, the current application won’t be granted?
- alricb 2y agoMy reading is that the examiner thought "advanced custom fields" was too generic. WPE had until Oct. 19 to file a response or ask for an extension, and they asked for an extension on Oct. 4. For "ACF" however, the examiner didn't see a problem and it has been published in the Federal Register. It will be registered if no one files an opposition during the publication period. You don't need to have a registered trademark to sue for trademark infringement; registration does make it easier to assert your trademark and can increase damage in a court case.
- getcrunk 2y agoA lot of the comments seem to call out Matt (right or wrong). But that’s the easy thing to do. No one dares address the systemic issue of for profit corporations exploitatively (ab)using open source software. There is a social contract that people should contribute back, and while it’s largely unenforceable, as it should be, when it’s happening on a systemic level something has to be done. And we are all complicit if we don’t at least say that much and spare some good will towards the guy actively in that fight at least superficially
- gjsman-1000 2y agoI’m with DHH. The license is the license. The moment there’s unwritten obligations, the movement will implode - simply because unwritten obligations are always up to interpretation. Don’t like the status quo? Use a different license. This is especially true of WordPress, considering it’s an unlicensed fork of an earlier project itself.
- lolinder 2y ago> No one dares address the systemic issue of for profit corporations exploitatively (ab)using open source software. Calling out Matt and Automattic for their abusive behavior is addressing the systemic issue of for-profit corporations exploitatively abusing open source software. We're talking about a company that released GPL software, waited a decade for another company to build their entire business around said GPL software, and then came at them with threats of going to "nuclear war" (their words) with them if they didn't agree to extremely exploitative terms on top of the GPL licensing under which the software was released. That is the affront to Free Software that's happening here. WP Engine may or may not be a good company, but it is Matt who has given up on freedom. If you lure people in with a promise of Free Software and then hold a gun to their head when they take you up on it, you are the bad guy.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- getcrunk 2y agoMatt being a poor steward of gpl is by definition not a systemic issue … unless ur claim is that many people in positions like him do what he does which is in turn caused by invariant factors? The systemic issue is companies the world over not giving their fair share back in terms of contributing to foss. I might agree with most of your points, I’m just trying to get people to realize there’s the local issue of Matt/wp and then there’s this global issue of companies building businesses off foss and not giving back.
- toldyouso2022 2y agoI Left wp development when gutenberg came out, it was clear that things would have turned for the worse. Since then basically no new features only new bugs on an editor the majority didn't want and still doesn't. Now this. It feels good to be right and see things turned even worse than expected but what a waste. Wp could have improved so much and done so much more for entrepreneurs and startups. Instead they are stuck in 2018
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- justin66 2y agoImagine being an Automattic employee who turned down the severance offer, realizing only now that you're on the train to crazytown.
- chx 2y agoIf cutting off some Wordpress users from plugin upgrades just because some beef between matt and wpengine didn't make you realize that's the train you are on, nothing will.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- raverbashing 2y agoTo be honest, it was obvious that things were going the wrong way even before this The people that stayed are probably the ones that feel "married to the job" (pro-tip: you aren't your job)
- justin66 2y agoThe point of my comment was that it would really hurt, coming to these seemingly obvious conclusions after your friends or coworkers had already bailed. I just assume the severance offer is no longer in effect.
- maxk42 2y agoAbandon WordPress now. Fork it or switch technologies.
- Scaevolus 2y agoDoes anyone want to play armchair internet psychologist with me to speculate as to Matt's thinking here? My guess is that he was focused on these facts: 1) I own Wordpress 2) WPEngine is profiting from Wordpress and I'm not benefiting 3) This is unfair And it was stuck in his mind like a thorn, irritating him whenever the thought arose, and never went away. Commercializing open source is hard for myriad reasons, but wordpress.com is actually rather profitable, and yet it still bothered him that he wasn't getting a cut. Eventually, after many grumpy ruminations on it, the answer was obvious: "I deserve a cut of WPEngine's income, since they're using my software." No, this isn't how the license works, and there's no legal basis for it, but it felt right and fair. This thought, irrational and deluded as it was, wedged in his psyche and fed into his deep loathing for WPEngine. All the subsequent actions follow from it, from the initial ultimatum to the various actions he's taking to fight his enemy. This is an intensely personal and emotional fight for him, and everyone that disagrees is an enemy too. He's just asking for what's fair, and yet all these ignorant commenters on the internet can't see it.
- chiefalchemist 2y agoI hate to speculate, especially from a distance. But I do wonder: - Why now? What snapped? Clearly WPE didn't go to "billions" over night. So why go nuclear now? - Doesn't he have a close and immediate circle of advisors and confidants? Are they speaking to him and he's not listen? Or has he locked himself in a room so to speak and is completely unapproachable? Either way, not good. - Is he trying to force WPE to fork WP and then maintain their own version? Does he believe they can't do it? What if WPE's hosting peers unite and abandon what is effectively Automattic's version? Am I the only one who can't imagine a good outcome from all this?
- Scaevolus 2y agoIt is sad. I imagine a near future result will be WPE maintaining a fork of WordPress and the plugin repo, with WP demanding plugin authors disclaim any association with WPE.
- throw16180339 2y ago
- addedlovely 2y agoMatt you've lost the plot, time to step down or put independent governance in-place. How can you expect any developer to devote time to writing a plugin if the dictatorship of Matt can rug pull it at any time.
- baggy_trough 2y agoThis action is astonishing in its malignity. At this point I'm simply hoping for Matt Mullenweg to be excruciated in court.
- throw16180339 2y agoIt's a sad, sad day when you find yourself rooting for private equity vs. an open source company.
- wise_young_man 2y agoLast I checked Automattic is a privately held for profit company. One could argue that it’s a private equity too. Just using different words to twist a narrative.
- throw16180339 2y agoGood to know, thanks!
- mfkp 2y agohttps://thewpminute.com/private-equity-and-the-soul-of-wordpress/ https://thewpminute.com/private-equity-and-the-soul-of-wordp...
- toomuchtodo 2y agoThis is not the same. Private equity extracts as an investment, Automattic is an ecosystem participant (that happens to be privately held) that actively contributes to the community. That doesn’t mean Matt hasn’t taken things too far (I leave that to be determined by civil courts and the Wordpress community, no dog in the fight myself), but there is a difference, and it is very important to clearly delineate who is receiving benefit for value realized economically.
- noizejoy 2y agoI don’t have the right background/expertise to dig deeper into a different way of looking at this, but am still hoping that some writer will analyze this as a kind of asymmetrical warfare. Because looking at it that way, might open different analysis than most of what I’ve seen so far.
- davidandgoliath 2y agoDisheartening actions by a petulant child.
- chiefalchemist 2y agoYou're giving him too much credit.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- andrewmcwatters 2y agoI started a thread here a couple of weeks ago, "Ask HN: What's a Good Alternative to WordPress" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41731867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41731867 I feel like it's time to move off Wordpress. I don't feel comfortable about its future for my clients. What suggestions do you all have for alternatives?
- kyleee 2y agoDid anyone, especially here on HN, recommend going with Wordpress in the first place?
- bigiain 2y agoyeah. Me, for one. WordPress is kinda awful in a lot of ways. BUT You can hand a thoughtfully build WP site over to a non technical client, and they can work out or learn how to do 90% of the publishing and updating they need to do, or easily find staff or contractors with lots of WordPress experience to do it for them. The "43% of the entire web" statistic is a really really good reason to recommend WP for that reason. There is obviously not a single competing CMS/blog-platform that has anything like as many experiences users. Where by "users" I mean people who are familiar with or even experts on publishing content using it. That's the real "WordPress Community", the people using it on a day to day basis to get their jobs/hobbies/responsibilities done. That's the "WordPress Community" that makes it "the right thing" for agencies and contractors and IT departments to recommend WordPress. Up until 2 weeks ago, I regularly recommended WordPress. In spite of it's flaws.
- qingcharles 2y agoAgree. I hate Wordpress, but I still recommend it and run a bunch of sites on it. It's very easy to get up and running. It's has two decades of support. A ton of plugins, and people will moan about Gutenberg, but it's actually a good thing, IMO. I'm running dozens of WP sites on a single $3/mo Hetzner box without trouble.
- some1else 2y agoSupply chain attack
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- rsynnott 2y agoLook, enough already, it’s freenoded. Someone just fork the damn thing. I must say, “the Wordpress guy has a public nervous breakdown” wasn’t on my bingo card for 2024, but…
- mklepaczewski 2y agoIt was a stupid, stupid decision on WP's part. After reading it, the first thing I did was to make sure that I and all WP sites I have access to had automatic updates disabled. This always seemed like a good policy to me, as it is such a massive attack vector. After all, some popular plugin developed by someone in Nebraska (obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/2347/ https://xkcd.com/2347/) might be hijacked at some point. WP did the stupidest thing ever by hijacking ACF. WP is the villain now because they can inject unknown, unvetted code into my site (if I had enabled automatic updates). While I find ACF's code abhorrent, at least it has a proven track record of working and not crashing my site. Someone who just took over the plugin does not enjoy the same trust from me.