4 ms·

Because working out, alone, is not the solution. You could work out all day and still not lose a pound. Plenty of studies have shown this. Moreover, have you e

by borski 2y ago

Because working out, alone, is not the solution. You could work out all day and still not lose a pound. Plenty of studies have shown this. Moreover, have you ever tried to work out at 450 lbs? No? It is an immense effort, often literally impossible for most people at that weight, and the best they can manage is a walk around the block before their cardio can’t keep up. What then? See above, where I reminded people (which includes you) that things are rarely binary.

artursapek 2y ago
[flagged]
- borski 2y ago
  Cool. Let me know if you figure out a solution. Otherwise, perhaps let people get healthy instead of admonishing them to get healthy the way you think they should, which turns out to be… the same way they have always tried and has not worked.
  - artursapek 2y ago
    Bringing up mortally obese 450lb people (a tiny fraction of the population) is not a good faith argument against my position that it's a travesty Ozempic and other "weight loss drugs" are being prescribed to people en masse when most of them actually are very capable of just eating more healthy diets and exercising more. What we actually need to do is un-fuck our food supply and encourage healthier lifestyles... not give big pharma yet another chokehold over the population.
    - borski 2y ago
      Fine. I was 265. Not morbidly obese, just obese. The rest of my argument still holds if you change that. Your contention of “most of them actually are very capable of just eating more healthy diets and exercising more” is a nonsensical assumption, based on no data, and a prejudiced assumption that they are lazy and haven’t tried, ever. > What we actually need to do is un-fuck our food supply and encourage healthier lifestyles... Great. We should do that. I completely agree. It will definitely help our kids. That won’t help anyone get healthy in this lifetime. It takes too long. Obesity would kill you first. But you’re right, that’s probably better than taking a medication that is clearly helping people change their habits and get healthy, because you feel it would be better if they didn’t have the problem in the first place. Nicotine gum and patches help curb smoking and change people’s habits. Why? Why not just force everyone to quit cold turkey, like my dad did? Should we just change the way we talk about smoking and produce fewer cigarettes? Sure. But nicotine patches and gums saved lives and helped people quit that had never been able to before them, and not for a lack of trying. GLP-1 meds are an aid. The alternative isn’t fixing the food supply, but dying from obesity.
      - artursapek 2y ago
        Cool, I hope you are on your way to a healthier weight. I can see why medication could help in the short-term for someone who has dug a deep hole. My reaction of disgust is towards the premise of "how long until we're all on Ozempic?" and the current state of affairs, where far too many people in the US are being medicated for that and various other things.
        borski 2y ago
        > ... where far too many people in the US are being medicated for that and various other things. What, precisely, does this mean? If medication is appropriately prescribed, by well-educated and well-trained doctors who have, upon actually meeting the patient which neither of us has done, decided that this patient could benefit from said medication... why is that bad? 39.6 percent of U.S. adults are obese. If all of them were prescribed GLP-1 meds (which would definitely never be true, for lots of reasons), and if all of them got healthy because of it... that's bad? Simply because they used medication to help? Clarify for me, please, why medication is somehow not allowed to be used as a tool to fight illness or injury. Because people should somehow be "stronger" and able to fight it more on our own, despite not having been able to in the past?
        artursapek 2y ago
        GLP-1 is not a get out of jail free card. It will have long-term side effects. Mass medication is an undesirable state of the world because it doesn’t address the root of any problem. It simply negates or masks some of the effects. The Ozempic situation is just like how kids are now being prescribed Adderall in the millions, when really the problem is they are just given iPads too much and fed unhealthy food that causes ADHD. Adderall doesn’t address the cause. Then you end up with a slave population that needs this medication to function. which is only good for the pharma companies making money on those meds.
        borski 2y ago
        > GLP-1 is not a get out of jail free card. It will have long-term side effects. Source? Because so far it seems like you and others really want it to have long-term negative effects, but that the evidence for that is made up and entirely in your head, to date. > The Ozempic situation is just like how kids are now being prescribed Adderall in the millions, when really the problem is they are just given iPads too much and fed unhealthy food that causes ADHD. Adderall doesn’t address the cause. Ah, finally, the mask comes off. Your issue is with people getting help for disorders and illnesses they have, period. The trope that ADHD is caused by iPads is nonsense. ADHD is caused by an underdeveloped pre-frontal cortex. Plenty of kids actually have it. I did, for sure. I wish I had found out what ADHD was, instead of holding my preconception about what it was, much earlier in life. I didn’t need that struggle against a thing I could never beat, because your brain controls everything you do. > Then you end up with a slave population that needs this medication to function. which is only good for the pharma companies making money on those meds. Do you? Show me a “slave population” that “needs adderall to function.”
    - antifa 2y ago
      > What we actually need to do is un-fuck our food supply Seems like something you could lead with instead of moronic gut reactions...
      - artursapek 2y ago
        There's nothing moronic about the argument that calorie deficits can cause weight loss. Most people using Ozempic have never tried multi-day fasting as an alternative. There are plenty of ways to lose weight that don't require taking medicine that might be fucking up your digestive system long-term.
        borski 2y ago
        > There's nothing moronic about the argument that calorie deficits can cause weight loss. That’s not the argument you are making, and that is one I’d agree with. > Most people using Ozempic have never tried multi-day fasting as an alternative. Source? This is an assumption that requires data, because it is intuitively not true; and anecdotally, it is also not true. This is purely a prejudiced assumption. > There are plenty of ways to lose weight that don't require taking medicine that might be fucking up your digestive system long-term. Or it might not, and hasn’t, at any meaningful scale, since 2005. Seems like you really want it to, though, and that seems like more a problem with you than it or them.

by borski 2y ago

artursapek 2y ago

[flagged]

borski 2y ago
Cool. Let me know if you figure out a solution. Otherwise, perhaps let people get healthy instead of admonishing them to get healthy the way you think they should, which turns out to be… the same way they have always tried and has not worked.
- artursapek 2y ago
  Bringing up mortally obese 450lb people (a tiny fraction of the population) is not a good faith argument against my position that it's a travesty Ozempic and other "weight loss drugs" are being prescribed to people en masse when most of them actually are very capable of just eating more healthy diets and exercising more. What we actually need to do is un-fuck our food supply and encourage healthier lifestyles... not give big pharma yet another chokehold over the population.
  - borski 2y ago
    Fine. I was 265. Not morbidly obese, just obese. The rest of my argument still holds if you change that. Your contention of “most of them actually are very capable of just eating more healthy diets and exercising more” is a nonsensical assumption, based on no data, and a prejudiced assumption that they are lazy and haven’t tried, ever. > What we actually need to do is un-fuck our food supply and encourage healthier lifestyles... Great. We should do that. I completely agree. It will definitely help our kids. That won’t help anyone get healthy in this lifetime. It takes too long. Obesity would kill you first. But you’re right, that’s probably better than taking a medication that is clearly helping people change their habits and get healthy, because you feel it would be better if they didn’t have the problem in the first place. Nicotine gum and patches help curb smoking and change people’s habits. Why? Why not just force everyone to quit cold turkey, like my dad did? Should we just change the way we talk about smoking and produce fewer cigarettes? Sure. But nicotine patches and gums saved lives and helped people quit that had never been able to before them, and not for a lack of trying. GLP-1 meds are an aid. The alternative isn’t fixing the food supply, but dying from obesity.
    - artursapek 2y ago
      Cool, I hope you are on your way to a healthier weight. I can see why medication could help in the short-term for someone who has dug a deep hole. My reaction of disgust is towards the premise of "how long until we're all on Ozempic?" and the current state of affairs, where far too many people in the US are being medicated for that and various other things.
      - borski 2y ago
        > ... where far too many people in the US are being medicated for that and various other things. What, precisely, does this mean? If medication is appropriately prescribed, by well-educated and well-trained doctors who have, upon actually meeting the patient which neither of us has done, decided that this patient could benefit from said medication... why is that bad? 39.6 percent of U.S. adults are obese. If all of them were prescribed GLP-1 meds (which would definitely never be true, for lots of reasons), and if all of them got healthy because of it... that's bad? Simply because they used medication to help? Clarify for me, please, why medication is somehow not allowed to be used as a tool to fight illness or injury. Because people should somehow be "stronger" and able to fight it more on our own, despite not having been able to in the past?
        artursapek 2y ago
        GLP-1 is not a get out of jail free card. It will have long-term side effects. Mass medication is an undesirable state of the world because it doesn’t address the root of any problem. It simply negates or masks some of the effects. The Ozempic situation is just like how kids are now being prescribed Adderall in the millions, when really the problem is they are just given iPads too much and fed unhealthy food that causes ADHD. Adderall doesn’t address the cause. Then you end up with a slave population that needs this medication to function. which is only good for the pharma companies making money on those meds.
        borski 2y ago
        > GLP-1 is not a get out of jail free card. It will have long-term side effects. Source? Because so far it seems like you and others really want it to have long-term negative effects, but that the evidence for that is made up and entirely in your head, to date. > The Ozempic situation is just like how kids are now being prescribed Adderall in the millions, when really the problem is they are just given iPads too much and fed unhealthy food that causes ADHD. Adderall doesn’t address the cause. Ah, finally, the mask comes off. Your issue is with people getting help for disorders and illnesses they have, period. The trope that ADHD is caused by iPads is nonsense. ADHD is caused by an underdeveloped pre-frontal cortex. Plenty of kids actually have it. I did, for sure. I wish I had found out what ADHD was, instead of holding my preconception about what it was, much earlier in life. I didn’t need that struggle against a thing I could never beat, because your brain controls everything you do. > Then you end up with a slave population that needs this medication to function. which is only good for the pharma companies making money on those meds. Do you? Show me a “slave population” that “needs adderall to function.”
  - antifa 2y ago
    > What we actually need to do is un-fuck our food supply Seems like something you could lead with instead of moronic gut reactions...
    - artursapek 2y ago
      There's nothing moronic about the argument that calorie deficits can cause weight loss. Most people using Ozempic have never tried multi-day fasting as an alternative. There are plenty of ways to lose weight that don't require taking medicine that might be fucking up your digestive system long-term.
      - borski 2y ago
        > There's nothing moronic about the argument that calorie deficits can cause weight loss. That’s not the argument you are making, and that is one I’d agree with. > Most people using Ozempic have never tried multi-day fasting as an alternative. Source? This is an assumption that requires data, because it is intuitively not true; and anecdotally, it is also not true. This is purely a prejudiced assumption. > There are plenty of ways to lose weight that don't require taking medicine that might be fucking up your digestive system long-term. Or it might not, and hasn’t, at any meaningful scale, since 2005. Seems like you really want it to, though, and that seems like more a problem with you than it or them.